Most Dangerous Power Tool?

[Garrett French]

What's the most dangerous power tool?

My answer would be: "whichever power tool you're using!"

But then... I'm not a woodworker ;)

Which power tool/s, in your experience, are the most dangerous?

[Don Taylor]

For me that would have to be the chain saw. I've never felt comfortable with one. :dunno:

Don

[Ian Gillis]

Lots of possible answers here. I think I'd have to go with "the machine that's most poorly maintained". Fences out of alignment, hold downs that don't hold, shut offs that don't always work on the first try.

It's okay to have a television that needs a smart tap to get it working properly, but it's not acceptable with powerful shop machines.

[Jeff Horton]

The tool you are least knowledgeable of or most careless with.

Jeff

[Garrett French]

yeah - I'm wary of chainsaws too... I've used my share of bow saws to cut up brush and cut myself pretty good doing that :)

Ian - I wasn't aware of the relationship between safety and tool maintenance...

But let's say you've got a shop full of well maintained tools?

Are there any tools that are just plain more dangerous than others?

Also Ian do you think a more useful/interesting line of discussion be - what are the most important points to check on powerful shop machines to insure safety?

[Steve Clardy]

Guess I give my 3hp powermatic shaper more respect than any machine in the shop

[Ian Abraham]

what are the most important points to check on powerful shop machines to insure safety?


The operator ;)

But seriuosly, you want to ensure that whatever guards and safety features it has are actually there and working, and that nothings likely to come loose and break while you are working. Like you dont want to use a router with a dodgy collet or a saw blade with a stess crack in it :eek:

But nine times out of ten it comes down to the operator making a mistake.

I also vote for chainsaw as the most dangerous, but at least it's obviously dangerous. Big noisey machine with exposed fast moving cutters, there is no mistaking it could do some damage if you operate it carelessly. There aren't many other common machines where you should wear as much safety gear as a chainsaw.

Cheers

Ian

[Art Mulder]

#1 - A tablesaw that does not have a splitter, and/or the fence is not parallel to the blade.

#2 - Circular saw. I go out of my way to avoid using a circ saw. I usually use a jig saw if/when I need to break up a large sheet of plywood. Slow, yes, but I'm just much more comfortable with it.

[Frank Fusco]

The question was rather broad, "power tool". My tractor is a power tool as is my truck, etc.
But, to limit the response to a wood working shop, I'll repeat what my son, an emergency room physician, says.
The most frequent serious injuries are with table saws.
The second most frequent serious injuries, in terms of numbers of incidents, are from miter and/or compound miter sliders.
However, in terms of most devasting the CSM is far and away the worst. Those usually involve finger amputations. The table saw accidents are serious gashes but (usually) leave the fingers in place.
He also says that most of those injuries are to guys like me, middle age to retired age. And, they all say the same thing, "I never do it that way, but just this once........". :(

[Frank Pellow]

The most dangerous woodworking tool that I actually use is a chainsaw. There are others (such as a radial arm saw used for ripping) that I will not use.

[Bart Leetch]

Speaking of POWER & TOOLS!!!

As a human you are empowered by your brain.

I still hold these truths to be self-evident the most dangerous thing in any shop is the human operator.

So if you need to be scared of anything be scared of yourself. The tool setting there in your shop shut off will never make a mistake that will endanger you in any way.

You must turn the machine on & in doing so may have made your first mistake if you did not engage brain first.

[Garrett French]

The question was rather broad, "power tool". My tractor is a power tool as is my truck, etc.
But, to limit the response to a wood working shop, I'll repeat what my son, an emergency room physician, says.
The most frequent serious injuries are with table saws.
The second most frequent serious injuries, in terms of numbers of incidents, are from miter and/or compound miter sliders.
However, in terms of most devasting the CSM is far and away the worst. Those usually involve finger amputations. The table saw accidents are serious gashes but (usually) leave the fingers in place.
He also says that most of those injuries are to guys like me, middle age to retired age. And, they all say the same thing, "I never do it that way, but just this once........". :(

that's chilling Frank. thanks for sharing from your son's experience.

...especially this part "I never do it that way, but just this once........"

when you do things differently and get hurt is that likely to be something you're doing out of laziness, tiredness or experimentation? Or is that too broad to say?

[Per Swenson]

All three.

And another. Production deadline or honey come up and eat please.

There is another scenario that can shake your focus.

People who talk.

Another reason I prefer to work alone.

Per



QUOTE=Garrett French;22388]that's chilling Frank. thanks for sharing from your son's experience.

...especially this part "I never do it that way, but just this once........"

when you do things differently and get hurt is that likely to be something you're doing out of laziness, tiredness or experimentation? Or is that too broad to say?[/QUOTE]

[Ian Gillis]

Are there any tools that are just plain more dangerous than others?


I gotta agree with Steve on the spindle shaper. Big cutters, tons of torque - able to do a pile of damage.

Statistically, the tablesaw is responsible for the greatest number of accidents - I've heard figures of up to 80% - but that's mainly down to the fact that it's in almost every shop and gets used a lot.

The closest I ever came to losing a digit was while using the drill press. Go figure :dunno:

[Travis Porter]

I agree with the chainsaw, cut myself good with a bowsaw way way back.

For in the shop, spindle shaper.

[Chuck Hanger]

A radio playing and taking your mind off of what you should be concertrating on. Never let a radio play on any of my jobs..........

[John Bartley]

I don't think I know a power tool that isn't dangerous. I made my living fixing chainsaws and I know a couple of folks who survived serious encounters with them. My dad lost a finger (and almost two fingers) to a circular saw. Many years ago I lost a very small part of one finger to a poorly adjusted table saw fence. That same year, I dropped a kindling axe through my left hand between the thumb and forefinger. I was just 22 years old at that time and I figure I was lucky. Those same years I was regularly using a device that most people haven't even seen. We burned firewood then, cut our own in pulp length (4') during the winter, then in the summer we'd cut it to stove length on a firewood bench saw. This is a saw with a blade about 30" mounted on an 1-1/2" mandrel with a huge flywheel (250lbs?) bolted to a timber base and driven by a flat belt from a farm tractor. I had a pair of Cockshutt 20's to drive it with. Why lucky? I'm alive and I have all my limbs. I won and the firewood saw didn't. I still have the saw, but I doubt I'll ever use it again.

cheers eh?

[Jeff Horton]

I keep hearing people talk about the shaper, but what is the difference in a shaper and table mounted router? Even the weakest router has more than enough power and speed to rip your finger off. Seems to me the danger is the same.

Whats different is the PERCEIVED danger.

Jeff

[Dan Lee]

Not power but a really sharp chisel and you have some fingers in the ooops path

[Ed Nelson]

I would have to go with any dull tool. As long as I understand the tool and know how to properly use it, I don't think any tool itself is inherently dangerous, but there are some that deserve more respect. The injuries I have received to any tool has been the result of my own actions.

Now I have seen pictures of the old swing saws and those do look dangerous!:eek:

[Ian Gillis]

I keep hearing people talk about the shaper, but what is the difference in a shaper and table mounted router? Even the weakest router has more than enough power and speed to rip your finger off. Seems to me the danger is the same.

Whats different is the PERCEIVED danger.

Jeff

You could very well be right Jeff, but the difference I perceive is that a 3 hp router will stall a lot sooner than a 3 hp shaper. The one shaper I used a lot was 3 phase, 3 hp 1 1/4" spindle. There was no perceptable slowdown when cutting 4" crown moulding in oak or cherry. I always figured that the any piece that got jammed would either become a missile or a fragmentation bomb.

I never had a mishap, so your comment about perception could be spot on. I know there are folks who are scared every time they use a tablesaw because they think kickbacks "just happen" and I consider their perception to be flawed.

[Travis Porter]

I agree with Ian. I am new to the shaper and the raised panel cutter I have for the shaper is substantially larger and heavier than the ones I have used in a router table not to mention it is a 3 wing cutter. The fact that it can raise the panel in one pass is intimidating to me.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Heh Heh...I probably shouldn't look in the "still packed" moving boxes for pictures of me falling 4' Yellow Pines on cliff ledges...or the 12' Cedars or 4'-6' Fir trees. Or mention the exploding White Pines :rofl:

I have only been seriously hurt with hand tools. Not the shapers, not the table saws nor the routers. Just good old chisels and hand saws.

Well, I did once roll a rubber-tired log skidder over 200' down a mountain side once. That was a power tool [of sorts ;) ]

Take care, Mike

[Craig Feuerzeig]

I thought that statistically, it was the band saw.

[Frank Fusco]

that's chilling Frank. thanks for sharing from your son's experience.

...especially this part "I never do it that way, but just this once........"

when you do things differently and get hurt is that likely to be something you're doing out of laziness, tiredness or experimentation? Or is that too broad to say?

Yes, that is true. He is a Board Certified emergency room physician in a Level 1 trauma unit in a mid-sized city. He sees three or four finger amputations a month on guys just like us. :eek:
Recently, on a penturning forum, I told the story of how I completely messed up a pen and fine piece of wood. My mind was on an important family matter and I hardly recall being in the shop or using the lathe. :o
I was real lucky. It cost me a $5.00 piece of wood and some time. Another tool combined with my absentmindedness and it could have cost fingers. :(

[Jeff Horton]

As for a shaper, I think it would mangle a finger, hand or any other body part just as fast a router. There may be a point in that it won't stall out as easy as a router but if you get a finger in it it won't matter. If it launches a part into orbit I don't think the speed matters either.

I have been hit by missiles from the table saw and it was because I did something wrong. I cut my finger on the bandsaw recently. Scared me big time as I thought I had really opened up a big gash. Once the adrenalin settled and I looked, it was just a small cut. I have been cut several times by chisels. You can shave with my chisels and I am more scared of getting a serious cut from them than probably anything in my shop. My bandsaw scares me some because of the open blade and the fact my fingers are so close. I could go on with just about all the tools.

I don't think any tool is inherently dangerous. The fact is they all can be dangerous and hurt you bad in heart beat. The one uncontrollable factor is the operator and any tool in the right hands can be dangerous. Even hammers can kill people.

Jeff

[Jim King]

The only tool that actually REALLY SCARES me to use is the jointer. Over the years I have seen to many fingers dissapear. It is much worse doing production work as you slowly become half asleep from the repetative nature of the work. When we started our business a long time ago it was just my wife and myself, I made some wooden gaurds that when edging 1/4 and 1/2 boards it was impossible for her to get a hand near the blades.

[Frank Fusco]

The only tool that actually REALLY SCARES me to use is the jointer. Over the years I have seen to many fingers dissapear. It is much worse doing production work as you slowly become half asleep from the repetative nature of the work. When we started our business a long time ago it was just my wife and myself, I made some wooden gaurds that when edging 1/4 and 1/2 boards it was impossible for her to get a hand near the blades.

Do I dare say this?....and risk a friendship? :eek:
With HER using the planer, YOUR hands could never get near the blades. :thumb: Oh, well. I guess my next book will have to be set in Siberia. :rofl:

[Bruce Page]

I once ran a Giddings & Lewis vertical turret lathe that had a 120” chuck/faceplate driven by a 100hp motor. That machine scared the hell out of me every time I hit the green button. I gave that machine a lot of respect :eek:

[Ian Abraham]

For all the mucking about we do with chainsaws and sawmills, a couple of months back my tree cutting buddy practically amputated his finger what an AXE :eek: :huh:

He's got the pins, screws and stitches out now, but is still working on getting something like normal movement in it. So it's often not the power or the percieved danger, it's the operator error / taking the tool for granted.

Cheers

Ian.

PS.. He tells me the docs reattached his finger (joined tendons, drilled the bone out for pins and stitched it all up) under LOCAL anaesthetic. He got to watch the whole thing and said "Well now I know what my finger looks like inside". The Doc wouldn't let him take pics of the operation with his cell phone though :doh:

[tod evans]

i`d say that i agree with the most dangerous powertool being one that`s poorly maintained, specifically one with dull cutters....
shapers/routers-n-moulders will turn meat into hamburger....no repairs!
saws on the otherhand will usually leave parts to reattach....
when i worked in the e-r many moons ago the utility knife was the most frequent cause of e-r visits....
for myself i need to be very carefull using the bandsaw `cause after a short time i notice my eyes drooping kinda following the downward path of the blade....
i really don`t think there is one "best" answer to the question......every person has different work habbits, fears and abilities and should try to be aware of their own weaknesses......tod

[Stuart Ablett]

I'd say the newest tool you own, as you may not know how exactly it operates.

The chainsaw is the one the scares most people being around them, they are noisy and those flying gnashing teeth, but really, I think that the obvious danger makes them a lot safer. I know that when I fire one up, my spidey sense goes into over drive.

I'd done more damage to myself with hand tools than anything else, thank goodness, as they take smaller bites :rolleyes:

Cheers!

[Dick Rowe]

I would take a different stance and say that the most dangerous tool is the one you are MOST comfortable with, and use all the time.

Once you take something for granted, become complacent towards it, and lose any sense of fear you may have about it's use ... it will bite you.

[Mike Jory]

Although I think every tool I own can be dangerous, like running with a screwdriver, it's the jointer, then the table saw, then the band saw. The jointer doesn't lend itself to feather boards and stuff easily. And those are huge blades spinning near the work. The pressure on the work piece is slightly downward, and forward to move the piece, similar to the TS, but it just freaks me out. So I'm very cautious, I think twice and make dry runs over the jointer.
I try to remember to also not push my fingers into the band saw blade, before it comes out the end of the cut.
Like many said above, everything is a problem if you get distracted, or forgetful. The one time I actually got away with yelling at my wife, was when she startled me in the shop while using a power tool.
I also have a lathe, and was thankful that I was wearing a full face shield. DAMHIKT:D

[Garrett French]

This is a quick note just to say hello to folks who may have made their way over here from the WoodNet forum.

I asked over there what they thought about the most dangerous power tools... and gave them a link to this thread so they could see what FamilyWoodworking thought

There are some good answers over there, but I wanted to point out this guy who really got creative... hilarious!!!
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=2889210&Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=2888857&Search=true&where=&Name=26585&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2889210

[Steve Ash]

After thinking about this since the topic started, my thought immediately was the shaper, then the jointer....I even got slightly "bit" by the tablesaw on my left thumb a few days ago, surely that would sway my opinion....but the one tool I have had the most "accidents" with on the job site, I'm not sure it can be considered a power tool although it needs some air to power it....that tool that has been the cause of more jobsite "blood and bandaids" is my air powered framing nailers.

[Travis Porter]

I have been bit myself with a pin nailer once. It was an el cheapo without a safety. Fiddling around with too much in my hands and hit the trigger. It stayed in flesh in my hand (no bone), but the LOML had me get rid of it and buy one with a safety.

[Steve Ash]

Well this one had a safety ....picture below is like the gun I've had a few encounters with.

It all goes back to the operator and not the tool, every one of the accidents on the jobsite was because someone put their fingers too close to the stud and top plate when framing up walls, and misjudged where the nail was going.

Never life threatening, but still very painful. :o When my older brother worked for me he shot one 16c.c. half way through his index finger...luckily it completely missed the bone. Been shot by myself a couple of times too.

[Travis Johnson]

I think a few of you are getting the Most Dangerous Tool mixed up with the most common tool found in the shop. What I mean is, I too have heard that the Table Saw is given the top billing for dangerous tool because it is the one that causes the most injuries overall in this nations hospitals.

But I think a lot of that is not really the machine itself, it is the popularity of the tool. I might be wrong but I think a lot of non-woodworkers have a tablesaw in their possession and lack other tools. Its just the first tool many people get. With the popularity of miter saws getting bigger every year, it only makes sense that its number two.

That is the problem with statistics, it really only states part of the answer. Myself I think the tool you are most complacent with is the one that is the most dangerous. They all need respect.

In my shop it is my 18 inch wide jointer that is the most dangerous. Built in 1865, safety devices were not even heard of yet. Just looking at that beast scares the crap out of me.

[Bart Leetch]

Do I dare say this?....and risk a friendship? :eek:
With HER using the planer, YOUR hands could never get near the blades. :thumb: Oh, well. I guess my next book will have to be set in Siberia. :rofl:

"The only tool that actually REALLY SCARES me to use is the jointer. Over the years I have seen to many fingers dissapear. It is much worse doing production work as you slowly become half asleep from the repetative nature of the work. When we started our business a long time ago it was just my wife and myself, I made some wooden gaurds that when edging 1/4 and 1/2 boards it was impossible for her to get a hand near the blades."

I'm trying to follow you Frank but I don't see where Jim said anything about a planer.:wave: :dunno:

[Bart Leetch]

[QUOTE=tod evans;22660]I`d say that i agree with the most dangerous power tool being one that`s poorly maintained, specifically one with dull cutters....


That not the fault of the machine that is operator error.

Bad head space. The operator is the dangerous item here.

[Bart Leetch]

[QUOTE=Stuart Ablett;22677]I'd say the newest tool you own, as you may not know how exactly it operates.

Still the operator.

Lets just quit blaming the tools. With out man there would be no tools to get hurt on & with out man the tools that exist would just sit there & gather dust.

You the operator are the one at fault here every time. NOT THE TOOL. You are what is dangerous. Lets face it without you the operator there is no one to get hurt.

Most of you that have been in the military know what head space means I am sure at least the ones that carried a weapon do.

It appears that we have a head space problem here.

It is not the tool at fault here. It is the operator & their head space.

I personally will never accept another answer to the problem.

Because I know from experience more than once.

A properly set up tool with guards push pads feather boards sharp tooling & proper selection of material will & proper attention to what is going on as the machining is being performed (properly calibrated head space) will most likely eliminate almost all danger of injury.


To find out if this it true just ask the person that got injured what he would do different that would protect him from injury doing the same operation the next time. I'll bet his head space has been working overtime he'll tell you exactly what he would do to stay safe next time.

The LOML said take up sewing & I said jab themselves with a needle. She said they even do it with a sewing machine.

[Travis Porter]

I tend to agree with you. It would be better to have a statistic that shows percentage of injuries to number of devices in service compared to total injuries.

Another thought on the most dangerous, is the tool that has inadequate or broken safety mechanisms. For your example, say using a jointer without any blade guard would freak me out.

[Bart Leetch]

I tend to agree with you. It would be better to have a statistic that shows percentage of injuries to number of devices in service compared to total injuries.

Another thought on the most dangerous, is the tool that has inadequate or broken safety mechanisms. For your example, say using a jointer without any blade guard would freak me out.

Here again is it the tools fault? NO. The operator is responsible to make sure that there are adequate safety mechanisms & the they are not broken & are completely serviceable. Lets face it safety is a function of the operators brain. The tool cannot think for its self.

Tools are not dangerous operators are dangerous to them selves when operating equipment. Tools setting turned off with no operator are not dangerous. There is not any most dangerous tool.

THERE IS A MOST DANGEROUS OPERATOR.

[Frank Pellow]

This is a quick note just to say hello to folks who may have made their way over here from the WoodNet forum.

I asked over there what they thought about the most dangerous power tools... and gave them a link to this thread so they could see what FamilyWoodworking thought

There are some good answers over there, but I wanted to point out this guy who really got creative... hilarious!!!
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=2889210&Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=2888857&Search=true&where=&Name=26585&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2889210
Thanks for the reference Garrett. I very much enjoyed reading the referenced post and agree that it is both creative and hilarious.

[Travis Porter]

No argument, actually total agreement. I am a very dangerous operator when it comes to chisels, screwdrivers, and hand tools. I am always nicking and cutting myself.

For the most part, I am safe and cognizant with the powered ones.

[Chris Mire]

bart,

please do not take this the wrong way, i hope i can say this right without offending you. the point of this conversation was to see what people felt was the most dangerous power tool in their opinion, based on their knowledge and experience. you are very accurate in stating that the operator is the problem, whether it be because of lack of concentration, misaligned tools, badly maintenanced tools or whatever. BUT, if you take one single operator and place him at 15 various brand new power tools, one of those power tools can be considered by that operator to be the most dangerous tool. whether it be the shaper, tablesaw, miter saw or whatever. so while i agree with you that the operator can be the weak link, that doesn't take away the fact that any given power tool can be considered the most dangerous to that operator.

thanks
chris

[Bart Leetch]

bart,

BUT, if you take one single operator and place him at 15 various brand new power tools, one of those power tools can be considered by that operator to be the most dangerous tool. whether it be the shaper, table-saw, miter saw or whatever. so while i agree with you that the operator can be the weak link, that doesn't take away the fact that any given power tool can be considered the most dangerous to that operator.

thanks
chris


Ok lets take a different tack here.

I don't particularly like a circular saw. I was scared of them for years. I hadn't used one very much & I still don't accept to cut sheet goods down to size & the occasional 2x so they are easier to handle.

Am I still scared of them no. But I do respect them. I would have called them the most dangerous tool in the shop years ago by the definition that is being tagged on tools in these type of posts but I have learned how to operate one safely. I have learned that a tool is only as dangerous as its operator. To use an old saying that can open a can of worms.

"Guns don't shoot people people do."

I have seen guys that are scared to death of RAS's that shoot guns all the time & I have seen guys that use a RAS that won't shoot guns for the same reason. Its not that the tool is the most dangerous its that the person doesn't feel safe with it. Whether it is Lack of experience or lack of teaching or not being familiar with the safety protocols for the tool. ETC. It still comes back to the person.

Two people operate the same machine one feels safe using it the other doesn't has the tool changed? NO the operator did. What I am saying Chris is get right down to the root of the problem. Why does the person feel unsafe running the tool? Yes I have felt unsafe running a tool & I know why. It wasn't the tool. It was me. Something I didn't do or pay attention to. The machine will only do what you direct it to do or misdirect it to do.

As long as the tool is properly set up all safeties in place the wood checks out no reaction wood. It will always be the human equation. Take away the human there is no problem that tool will set there perfectly safe all fat dumb & happy for centuries.


Yes your right the person will have to make the decision is the tool the most dangerous tool the way they plan to operate it. Or what can they do to make it just as safe to operate as any other tool that they they consider really safe to operate.


It comes right back to the operator. Why do they feel that this tool is the most dangerous tool in the shop?


There has to be a reason. DON'T JUST TAG A TOOL THE MOST DANGEROUS TOOL IN THE SHOP. A tool is not dangerous all by its self this involves a human being.

Without a human there would be no tools. Without the combination of the human & tool there would be no unsafe feeling.(Remember tools don't have feelings) Hence the feeling that a certain tool is the most dangerous. Don't let your human hand turn it on it isn't dangerous. Its your human interaction & feelings that either make the tool safe or dangerous. No human interaction no feeling of danger.


Your heart rate will increase just watching someone jump out of a plane with a parachute. Now jump out of the plane with the parachute your self. See the difference?
Having never jumped before how safe did you feel? Its not near as easy as receiving instruction standing on the ground on how to safely operate a wood working machine. You have to put your life on the line & trust the parachute.

Its still the human equation. Is one properly packed parachute just as safe as another properly packed parachute? Probably How about 2 different machines properly set up with proper guards properly operated. Most likely wouldn't you say. Don'tcha think maybe it could just be the human that is the problem?

[Chris Mire]

bart,

i agreed that the human is the problem. no disagreement there. my point only was, to each and every person who has ever worked with power tools, they will consider one of those tools to be the most dangerous tool in their shop. so, let me make sure i understand what you are saying. given your experience, your familiarity with your own tools. can you not tell me,that tool X is the most dangerous tool in your shop. i think that was what this post was originally about. i can tell you that the most dangerous tool i have ever used was a shaper, why? because i was less comfortable with it and that huge raised panel bit scared me. does that mean that i can't say a shaper is an unsafe tool just because i didn't feel comfortable and it was me that caused it to be unsafe....no it doesn't....to me, that means the shaper is the most dangerous power tool in the shop i was in at the time.

again, i'm not combatting your point. just adding that just because you say it's the human's fault, doesn't make the tool safer.

hope that makes sense

thanks
chris

[Bart Leetch]

I changed my mind I guess I am allowed to do that.

"I can tell you that the most dangerous tool I have ever used was a shaper, why? Because I was less comfortable with it and that huge raised panel bit scared me. Does that mean that I can't say a shaper is an unsafe tool just because I didn't feel comfortable and it was me that caused it to be unsafe....no it doesn't....to me, that means the shaper is the most dangerous power tool in the shop I was in at the time."

Chris

I'll use your example & try to explain my thoughts.

Why were you less comfortable with it you didn't make it unsafe? It was because of that huge raised panel bit. If I am correct it sounds like it wasn't your shop. But lets assume it is & the shaper is yours. What could you have done to make it safer & make you feel different about it? Some shop built guards & or a power feeder would have taken your hands completely away from that huge raised panel bit danger area. Then you wouldn't be using it for your example.

I have always found that when I wasn't comfortable with an operation I was more prone to make a mistake & get hurt. So I stop I think through the operation & do or make what ever it takes to make it safe.

I would have to say I AM the most dangerous thing in my shop when I don't think & analize what is going on I am the one with the brain. Yep your right the tool is dangerous but thats where yours & my brain comes in. We can be dangerous by using the tool that at this point in time is dangerous even the most dangerous tool in the shop or WE can correct the situation so the tool is no longer considered the most dangerous tool in the shop.

Its up to you & me. We can sit back & continue to say that is the most dangerous tool in the shop or we can do something about it.

Your right there is a most dangerous tool in the shop right now. But I am sure you'll correct that problem real soon. Your a real sharp guy.

[Chris Mire]

bart,

of course you can change your mind. but please don't think that was my intention.

no it wasn't my shop. it was a shop i used to work at. there was no guard, no feeder, just me, the panel, the cutter and the fence. i wouldn't say the way i was working was dangerous. i never ever put my hands anywhere near that cutter. contrary to what some people might say, i feel i am most alert when using the scariest tools, not to say it's better for them to be scary. but i am more careful and move slower the closer my hands get to a blade or cutter. i used to have no fear, i would rip boards 2" wide without a pushstick...but i don't any more, i was ignorant to the danger back then.

i agree with everything you said, we must be the ones who make our enviroment safer, because you can go out and buy a shaper just like i described, no guard, no feeder. and people use them like this all the time.

i am attempting to leave my guard on my new table saw as long as i can possibly stand it, hopefully that is a long time. if not it will only come off for shorts periods.

thanks for being understanding of my point and not taking offense to what i said. i think if we all remain civil we have tons to learn from each other.

thanks
chris

[Tom Majewski]

This is starting to sound like the old saying that there are NO car "accidents", as each is caused by a bad or inattentive driver doing something he/she shouldn't. However there are accidents caused by things beyond anyone's control or reasonable expectations. To approach any tool with the thought that you have EVERY failure/accident incident covered is , well, we would never use the tool. You cant think about a clamp/holdown cracking, featherboard coming loose, tension in the wood, or metal fatigue in the bit. There were machine tools at work, professionally maintained, that because of the nature of their action and where they were used, the machinists refered to them (jokingly) as the widowmakers. Reminds me of the OSHA cowboy cartoon.

I had my fingertip removed by a tablesaw when I was 11, (couldn't wait for dad to get home) but 40 years later I don't fear it as much as other tools. I used a moulding head on a table saw once and THAT almost led to a premature short changing.:D Using a simple xacto blade cutting paper sent me to the hospital when the .005" tip cracked off and shot right into my eye. Of all the times I use safety glasses for everything around the shop, who would think you need some for cutting out a paper pattern. I shot a 3"nail through my hand, quite the sight, but didn't start throbbing till hours later. Fell off the house while roofing and only had 2 back surgerys from it. I guess the thing I would have done different was to have someone else do my roof. I do plenty of metalwork too, so I've had my share of burns, cuts, pinching fingers in the grinder. Cut my own firewood most times, and a chainsaw has been pretty safe for me, but I'm at ground level, not up in the air trimming a tree.
I've had more black and purple fingers than I can remember from hammer wacks. I had a couple kickbacks on the saw that missed me by a few mils....it's good to stand to the side. I used a wobble dado once and it gave me the chills. Just didn't feel comfortable. I like the chipper dado much better just because I don't feel it's going to fly off any second.

I've read stats somewhere where it stated that 40-some percent of home shop accidents are caused by a tablesaw. Not surprising since that's the first big cutting machine most people buy. I've been bit by most tools out there, but the ones I'm most apprehensive about are the shaper and jointer. Don't know why, just the meat eating ability of those tools I guess. BTW that shaper is a 1947 Montomery Ward made by Atlas that hasn't seen a guard or shield since my dad had bought it new to build his first house.

Someone here mentioned the CMS as a close second. I don't doubt the the fact, as there's many types of work habbits out there, but for me that has to be one of the safest tools I use. I have one hand gripping the wood, one hand gripping the handle, and neither hand moves till the operation is done.

Anyway, I thought I'd use up my first post status to say hi to everyone, and say that whenever we aim a sharp hard object at a softer object and strike, sometimes s**t happens, and most of the time it's minor thankfully. Whatever tool I use I like to turn it on thinking I'm more in control of the operation than not. If not I rethink the situation and try to think of an alternative.
I take a risk everytime I go into the shop. The alternative is becoming a couch potato, getting bored, going insane, and having an early heart attack.

Take care all,
Tom

[Garrett French]

I just finished a piece of writing based on conversations in this forum and in WoodNet. It's not quite as long as Pellow's book, but getting there ;)

I wrote this in the interest of bringing attention to safety issues, and throughout I linked out to safety resources and maintenance guides, as you all often said that maintenance is a key to safety.

I'm posting here to let Tod know I quoted him - and you too Frank, the part about your son's experience with woodworkers in the emergency room.

Also I'd like to know from you guys any ways you see to make it stronger and more effective.

Thank you again for your help in this.

http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2007/02/21/toolcribcoms-ultimate-guide-to-the-top-ten-most-dangerous-woodworking-power-tools/

[Frank Fusco]

Garrett, I just scanned your write-up, very good and interesting. I stated my son's observations.
When I replied, I guess I left out my own concerns. Since the original question just asked for 'power tools', I'm limiting my response to what we would normally find in a wood working shop. This excludes things like chain saws, tractors, etc. Lotsa tools out there operated by "power".
My biggest fear in my shop is the table saw. Scariest dang thing ever wuz. Even unplugged with blade down, I swear, it's waiting to jump up and damage me. I'm super careful using it. After that.....:doh: ....uh, I guess....everything else. I crippled my left thumb at age 10 with a hammer. That's a tool that is "powered" by people power. :rolleyes:

[Paul Downes]

Chainsaw would have to get my vote. I know of more fatalities miamings related to their use than any other power tool excepting vehicles. The only comment I would make regarding chainsaws is that every fatality that I know of was caused by operator error. The problem with their use is that most people don't have ready access to proper safety instruction. I have worked as a sawyer and heat with wood and whenever the subject comes up I seize the moment and give instruction solicited or otherwise. I spent a few min. today instructing a sales person who sells saws, on proper felling techniques. He told me that he has 5 scars on his thighs from getting lazy/tired while operating chiansaws! A good web site for learning about their proper use would be the forestry forum. Check out the saftey section.

[tracy fowler]

I agree it is the operator of the tool that is the most dangerous, the one piece of equipment I consider the most dangerous is the band saw, and here is why, you have a four foot blade traveling at around 30 mph(est) and a single butt weld joint holding the blade in a circle, and unlike most would think the blade snaps at the table not going around the wheels, it then feeds that blade out at a high speed, turning any flesh around it to hamburger.

Tracy Fowler

[Richard Smith]

The chain saw is bad,but a jointer is worse.

[Bill Simpson]

Bar none, I would consider the Radial Arm Saw as the most likely to cut you really bad machine. Look at it, the blade is dangling out there and you pull it right across your arm/hand. Most exposed blade than any device. I have been chomped by a jig saw, Band saw and a nick on Shaper, the lathe has had a try at my hide but the one that scares me the most is the RAS. I respect that flesh hungry monster.

Sure people do more harm than tool,, but like they keep trying to tell us "guns don't kill people . people kill people with guns." Same is true with machines back in '71 a dull bit kicked a board out and my fingers went in, chomp went the tips but a skilled surgeon sewed them back, in 73 a jig saw 's belt caught me off guard and broke 4 fingers but I survived, A student ('72) grabbed a long board that I was ripping and sent it back at me, broke a chip on my pelvic bone, bothers me still, but I fear the RAS the most. I got a nice one in the garage and I keep my self keened in on its duties at all times for that rascal will eat flesh in a heart beat. I use a chainsaw often and to the point where my back is killing me but I keep both hands on the saw and my mind on what I do. Only tool I think is as dangerous as the RAS is the Nail Gun. The framer will shoot at the least expected moment and is an accident waiting to happen. I have a nice one but I respect that sucker.

[Frank Fusco]

Well written post, Bill. We have all expressed our personal concerns. But your use of words is, indeed, sobering.
I heard a term the other day on a TV show about some big machines that is applicable to what we are discussing here. "unforgiving metal" Very true. The tool have no conscience or sympathy for what is in front of them.

[Charlie Plesums]

I have had a radial arm saw for over 30 years, and am on my third chain saw, and have a 16 inch jointer, and most of the other tools listed as "most dangerous." But I have been thinking about this thread as I worked in the shop the last few days, and want to nominate a new tool... the nozzle on a compressed air hose.

Sure, the big sharp tools can take off a finger (either in ground form or suitable for painful and expensive reattachment), but even without a finger, or several fingers, you can still lead an almost normal life.

Most of us have some form of dust collection, and perhaps an air filter, but way too many of us are quick to grab the air hose to clean something ... blasting all the dust into the air. I look at all the dust that collects on the dry surfaces of the shop, then think of the dust that must be collecting on the moist surfaces of my lungs as I pass air over them as I breathe. The dust in my lungs is more likely to shorten my life than a lost finger.

Therefore I nominate the air hose as the most dangerous power tool in my shop. :( Grim, huh?

[Toni Ciuraneta]

All this post are giving me the creeps:eek: .

There are statistics around that show clearly, that most accidents happen due to unattention, rush in trying to get things done to fulfill a deadline and lack of prevention. There are unexpected and unavoidable ones that are not related to the user of the tool himself but those are the least ones.

Sharp tools, powered or not, are less dangerous than dull tools, all of us know that.
Trying to develop an extra par of arms when we do not have them instead of waiting for somebody's help to do something that requires those extra arms. Unproperly fixed or supported pieces and not well maintaned machines etc. etc. can lead to an accident.
Not wearing safety googles can lead to have chip or your eye. Oh yeah! wood piercings are fashionable:( and after to make such a short cut...

Accidents happen due to the conjunction of different reasons, not just for one, and the most common one is too much confidence, the typical comment after an accident is " I can't understand how it happenned, I knew it was (a bit) dangerous but I've done it that way thousand times".

We all know the saying " measure twice cut once " I would change it to "measure twice, think thrice how are you going to do it and then cut once"

And after cutting count your fingers:)

To finish, this I could say that to me the most dangerous tool is one's brain.

My five cents.

[Frank Fusco]

Well stated, Tony.
You said, "To finish, this I could say that to me the most dangerous tool is one's brain."
Thanks for the assurance. I guess I'm safe. :( ;)

[Toni Ciuraneta]

Hi Frank.

I'm glad that you agree, we're at least two of us:thumb:

[Travis White]

Chainsaws do not scare me at all. They are quite safe as long as you use them right. I use one almost every week.