Client needs new drawers [Archive]

Robert Schaubhut

11-19-2006, 11:32 PM

As woodworkers we will always have clients, someone who wants us to build something. Sometimes we ourselves are that client. Sometimes our children, our spouses, in-laws, out-laws and sometime a client that is willing to pay is the focus of this wonderful mix of planning and building. Such a person called me the other day.
I am writing this, this way for those of you who do not do this for principle income, but rather for fun, having other jobs that produce income weekly, without the economic hills and valleys of the self employed woodworker. Also without the freedom.
My nickname is Shaz. "Shaz" she says, " I need some new drawers and was wondering if you could stop by and see me so that we could talk about it?"
"Sure enough", I said. I like her and have done work for her in the past.
She is high energy and very stimulating with her thoughts, ideas and stories.
We set a time and I went in to meet her at her office, not knowing what she had in mind.
This is the part where we get to the juicy stuff like what she really wants and her real needs.
Stay tuned in.
Shaz

Marty Walsh

11-19-2006, 11:55 PM

Shaz,

"Shaz" she says, " I need some new drawers and was wondering if you could stop by and see me so that we could talk about it?"

An opening line that like can take this thread in all sorts of directions...:peek:

I'm staying tuned...

- Marty -

Steve Clardy

11-20-2006, 01:42 AM

ears wide open---------------------just used 20 Q-tips ;)

Jim O'Dell

11-20-2006, 02:12 AM

Pictures, man. We got to have pictures!!:D Jim.

Stuart Ablett

11-20-2006, 02:59 AM

Shaz, I hope it turns out to be fun and profitable!! ;)

John Lucas

11-20-2006, 07:47 PM

Why am I reading this? Nothing about drawers or woodworking. What is it about? I thought this whole new forum was about woodworking. Stu help!!!

Steve Clardy

11-20-2006, 10:31 PM

Why am I reading this? Nothing about drawers or woodworking. What is it about? I thought this whole new forum was about woodworking. Stu help!!!

:dunno: :huh: :dunno:

We're waiting for the punch line

Jay Lock

11-20-2006, 10:37 PM

John, maybe we'll get to see some attractive customer pics and you can have some competition for your website. :D

By the way, you have to tell us your recruiting secrets. I thought the general guideline (Amy Devers exception) was you could have "good looking" "knows how to use power tools" but not both! Yet somehow you seem to keep finding good looking competent people for your web site.

Of course if I had helpers like that showing up in my garage/shop my wife might start wondering what was going on!

Jay

Robert Schaubhut

11-21-2006, 02:10 AM

Well okay, I got in the truck and set out over to her office. She offices out of about a 10 story on Bering , in Houston. I went in then up to her office and let the receptionist know who I was and asked if Connie was there( let us use the name Connie for anonymity). She said yes, just as Connie rounded a corner. She seemed pleased to see me.:)
"Shaz" she said, "i've been thinking of this for about a year".
I said " Well Connie what do you need from me?" :rolleyes: Then comes the line we really like to hear, " Shaz, I need a lot of new drawers".:thumb:
I said "okay, what do you need them for"?
I may be naive but some times I ask the right questions. After all I am a man looking at a women who has just told me she needs a lot of new drawers.
She says to me, "We need them for our teeth." :eek:
For you, either the dust has cleared or the plot has thickened.
More later
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

11-21-2006, 03:57 AM

Oh, by the way, I would never do anything to knowingly offend anyone, their spouse or the children. My intent is to share the joy I have found working with wood and some of the experiences I have had as a professional woodworker and artist throughout the years. Sometimes my presentation is different than normal but my intent is sharing and respect.
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

11-21-2006, 11:51 PM

Knowing Connie and her Husband's business what she just said came as no surprise. She is the office manager for her husband who is a restorative dentist. He does some major reconstructive work and often the first step in that process is to make a plaster cast of a person's teeth in the present condition. They do the uppers and lowers and sometimes a specialty casting which they store in zip lock bags. They have about 2000 sets of teeth now that they must save, for 10 years, insurance issues I think.
1 Now the facts, she wants drawers. Lots of them.
2 The space available is 128" wide.
3 She wants them in seperate cabinets so they can be moved later if necessary.
4 The height is up to here, pointing to a place on the wall, which was 60" when measured.
5 From the casing on the door to the back wall, which is our front to back maximum dimension, it was 26". The door covering was done with swinging cafe doors.
6 She said she would like to have, under the bottom drawer, space to put a plastic container about 5" high.
7 Weight is a factor for each drawer as plaster castings in weight add up.
8 Looks are not important, it does not have to be furniture quality.
9 The edges must be smooth as "we need not snag hosiery or sweaters on the drawers".
10 Each drawer needs to be easy to open by ladies.
11 The zip lock bags are about 6"x6" when flat.
I am throwing out this information so you can consider how you would do it within these guidelines. All projects have limits, and it is within these limits that some of our greatest work can surface.
I had a client who sold his business for a reported $42 million and in his new house his greatest problem was making choices. Carpet from India? Mongolia? New Zealand?Drapes from Russia? France? China? Wood from the rain forest? Teak, Rosewood, Sandlewood, Snakewood?
Limitations can be our friend.
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

11-23-2006, 02:28 AM

Considering the limits put upon me, 128" wall to wall, 26" depth max, 60" tall, build one first and see how it works, as many drawers as possible to hold zip lock bags that seemed to shrink up about 1 1/2" when stuffed with other peoples teeth to about 4 1/2", and room for a storage space under the bottom shelf..... this is how I began.
Divide the back wall dimension of 128" into "manageable increments" that can be built with the best use of material considered. Choice=25" wide. No need to crowd the existing wall.
Determine best front to back dimension given the 26" depth from casing to wall. Choice=24" full extension drawer guides, 24 1/2" cabinet, inside dimension. Front to back.......... plywood ripped to 23 3/4" plus 3/4" x 3/4" poplar facing = 24 1/2" (Actually this banding is made to fit the plywood which varies in thickness. It is planned to cover the plywood edges that would be otherwise visible on the front edge of the top, bottom, and two sides.
Height is predetermined at 60".

Method..Rip, Rip means to cut with the grain, 4' x 8' plywood in half at 23 15/16"
Put the newly cut edges to the rip fence and rip both pieces again to 23 3/4"x 8'.
I measure 60 1/8" (height) on the 8' side of the plywood and make a tick mark. I then set my table saw fence to the measurement I have determined from the other end of the plywood( since my saw won't cut off a 60 1/8" piece I have to cut it off the other end) to the tick mark. Crosscut both pieces of 8' plywood. My sides are now cut at 23 3/4" x 60" (we lose 1/8" with the saw blade thickness..'kerf'..) with 2 leftover pieces (drops ) of about 35 7/8" x 23 3/4". With me so far or am I boring you?
Shaz

Steve Clardy

11-23-2006, 02:30 AM

Nope. Just keep going :thumb:

Robert Schaubhut

11-23-2006, 02:36 AM

Thank you Steve.
Shaz

Stuart Ablett

11-23-2006, 08:05 AM

Yep, this is great, but where are the pics... :dunno:

;) :D :thumb:

Robert Schaubhut

11-23-2006, 01:10 PM

Thanks Stu,
First things first, pictures forthcoming, we still need to determine our material take off. We need a top, a bottom floor, a spreader about mid way,and a back plus we need to figure out how many drawers we can make work in the confines of 60" x23 3/4x 25". Since the box is 25" wide, the top and bottom and the spreader will be 23 1/2" (25" total outside dimension less the thickness of the two sides). Also at the top and bottom in the back, from side to side we want a 23 1/2" cleat we can screw through to attach it to the wall if needed. These boards, just 3/4" plywood, help to square and stabilize the piece.
In this photo which isn't the best, hopefully you can see that one 4' x 8' sheet of plywood makes the sides, the top and bottom, and the spreader, the piece on top of the others. The other two pieces are going under the bottom shelf and against the walls. The edges have been covered with poplar and a couple coats of lacquer were shot on the pieces where I thought it would be needed.
Oh, by the way, the first one is built and installed. I have no pictures of that yet, but it turned out real well and functional. I thought I would share the building of the other four.

Stuart Ablett

11-23-2006, 01:25 PM

Great Shaz, I'll look forward to you building pics, I'm sure other will too!

Cheers!

Robert Schaubhut

11-23-2006, 01:40 PM

Figuring out the drawer spacing was important as they were to serve a specific purpose, data basing thousands of plaster "teeth". When you do a job, start with figuring out the need it is to serve and then set about to do the best you can efficiently , aesthetically and purposefully.
I use a story pole that I make for the specific job. Sometimes one for the height, one for the depth, and one for the width, sometimes when there is a lot of detail I will make it as wide as 10" to get my information on it. That is a thought provoking endeavor, just as drawing the plans on the computer, except 1" =1" on the story pole.
Shown is a photo of the layout for the sides using a story pole for this specific job. More later, Lord willing.
Happy Thanksgiving to you all
Shaz

Marty Walsh

11-23-2006, 03:31 PM

Robert Schaubhut

11-25-2006, 03:11 AM

Shaz,

Thanks for sharing this design and layout process with us. I for one like seeing how people 'think through' a project, and you're doing a good job explaining...even though you had us wondering at first...:rolleyes:

By the way, have you ever tried your hand at Sketchup, or any other design software? It can be your friend during the design phase, since you can mock up the piece and make changes, large and small, without lifting a tool or wasting any material. Just a thought...

Keep going...
- Marty -

Marty,, Thanks for your input, as with the others, appreciated.
We all do things differently, I start my project with a woman in need of new drawers and end up talking story pole. :dunno:
Thanks to you from your posts in SMC I downloaded the free sketchup. That coupled with all of your posts and responses and I already owe you more than you can imagine, Why do you think I offer to send screws? "I ain't talkin no more Buster,and you can't make me either"!
" SU", I have played with it only a little. It is a facinating program and when I build my new shop, hope to use it extensively.
My hopes are to practice the program with the tutoials here on the Fam. WW. with the help of thowe more versed. In the mean time I'll keep
"Tryin to make a livin in doin the best I can"
Shaz

Marty Walsh

11-25-2006, 03:19 AM

Robert Schaubhut

11-25-2006, 03:50 AM

On that story pole which is longer than 60" I have nailed on a stop block so I can bump the plywood at the bottom edge and catch the bottom with a fixed block. Clamp story pole. Then proceed to mark on what will be the inside of the cabinet, a center line for the holes of the drawer slides, (the part of the two part drawer guide that will be mounted to the cabinet)
Mark in the front and back location of the Drawer guide holes then connect the dots.
This photo shows the story pole, clamped, set in place with the predetermined marks on the face of the story pole and also squared down the edge for a more accurate mark on the plywood side. I then use a square block like the mahogany piece shown to line up with the mark on the story pole and continue that line onto the plywood side. As can be seen on the story pole I have the 3/4" plywood floor marked at about mid way on the mahogany block and the lines with the circles are the drawer guide placement marks. Hopefully you can see the drawer size drawn on the SP
(story pole) 1/4" space above the 3/4" plywood floor marks, 15/16" to the drawer guide center line, 4" above center line and 1/4" space between drawers.

Robert Schaubhut

11-25-2006, 04:04 AM

I figured a space of about 7" under the bottom shelf for storage. A 3/4" top and floor and 3/4" spreader, with 1/4" between drawers and 1/2" baltic birch floors screwed to the bottom of the drawers would allow me 4 1/2" sides for the drawers to hold the teeth. This plan gives me 9-drawers with dimensions of approx. 22 1/2"x 21" x 4 1/2" inside, and a leftover drawer at the top a wee bit smaller.

Robert Schaubhut

11-25-2006, 04:09 AM

Shaz,

I'm glad you've given SU a look-see. I find it invaluable for design. For example, with your case of drawers, you could use SU to find the proper dimensions to maximize the number of drawers in the given space. You could easily move them around, change all of their dimensions at once, etc.

Enough about SU in this interesting thread....back to that woman's drawers...;)

- Marty -
I believe what you say and even as you mention the ways I could be using it on this project I see the value. It is in the practice and the help:) .
Thanks, glad you are up and at it again.
Shaz

Vaughn McMillan

11-25-2006, 09:20 AM

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks...and keep them pics and explanations coming. I've not really done any cabinet work, so I'm learning all sorts of new things here.

Robert Schaubhut

11-26-2006, 01:11 AM

Thank you Vaughn,
In this situation, once the drawer sizes have been determined, vertically,
we consider the space above and below the drawer, the actual height of the drawer, in this case the thickness of the floor, (1/2" shy) which will be screwed to the underside of the drawer sides which will be 4 1/2"s tall totalling 5" for the drawer, 1/4" above and below each drawer, 1/4" space between the drawers and the spreader, 1/4" above the cabinet floor and 1/4" below the top fixed piece. All this is all documented on the story pole as well. We will have no drawer fronts per se on these pieces but rather create an easy grip and pull of the drawer itself by cutting a comfortable curve in the front piece of the four sided drawer. The photo shows an up close of the story pole.
Once all these dimensions have been established then the drawers can be built. The drawer guides can be mounted on the drawers so that any drawer will fit anywhere except the top tee nee wee nee drawer.

Robert Schaubhut

11-26-2006, 01:25 AM

The sides will look like this when finished mounting the drawer guides. The top drawer guide will have a smaller drawer vertically, and 20" front to back as we are going to mount a horizontal cleat behind it for stability and in case we need to attach through this to the wall with a screw.

Robert Schaubhut

11-26-2006, 10:01 PM

The first drawer unit we built, the prototype was 60" tall x 25" wide x 24 5/8" deep, the sides made to accomodate 24" drawer guides, the 1/4" back and a little extra room inside where the drawers are mounted, about 3/8". Well as stuff happens it was too wide to fit through the 24 1/8" opening.:doh: People in the waiting room, Dental assistants scurrying around, and my buddy laughing quietly as the thing does not fit and it weighs a ton with all drawers in it. :poke:
How do we get out of this one? My friends always make it a chuckle when stuff seems to not be working out as I try so hard to consider every aspect before we deliver. They are my age and know somehow when we are done "IT WILL WORK". :crash: They are always giving me the " oh, this ain't gonna fit, this is too tall, we will never get this around that corner". It must be payback for building stuff in as few pieces as possible and then having them complain about the weight knowing that it is built and we must carry it up stairs and around the corner, oh well , pay back is h@%#. :D
Fortunately we gained all the room we needed when we took off the cafe (swinging) doors and extracted the metal casing that covered the jamb, floor to ceiling. It was just clipped on to brackets that had been screwed in prior to the jamb install.It clipped over the metal stud and the sheetrock on both sides.
New opening measured 24 5/8" just like the box, with that measurement we cannot be denied! :thumb: In, almost, "ARE YOU PUSHING?" "WELL PUSH "!:bang: and in. Note to self :type: , Make next boxes a little bit smaller.
P.S. Measure doorway opening in the future.
Shaz

Vaughn McMillan

11-27-2006, 07:23 AM

...Note to self :type: , Make next boxes a little bit smaller.
P.S. Measure doorway opening in the future.
Shaz
Literally LOL...Mr. Detail-oriented missed the doorway measurement. Sounds like someting I'd do. Great story so far. :rofl:

Robert Schaubhut

11-29-2006, 02:47 AM

Literally LOL...Mr. Detail-oriented missed the doorway measurement. Sounds like someting I'd do. Great story so far. :rofl:
Thanks Vaughn, you are too kind.
Basically the drawers need built. How much material? Let us figure one cabinet of nine 4 1/2" high drawers with 1/2" floors, each side roughly 24" deep, and the front and back, roughly a bit less than 24". One top drawer with the same outside estimate and a 1/2" floor.
ESTIMATE FOR MATERIALS... floors- We need 10 floors per cabinet- 24"x24" x 1/2" . 1/2" Baltic birch comes 60" x 60", we get 4 floors per sheet, since we have 10 drawers and 1 cabinet needs 2 and 1/2 sheets, lazy as I am I figure the total amount for the 1/2". 4 floors per sheet, 40 floors total = 10 sheets B.B. ( for all 4 cabinets) Next,...
Drawer sides Using C-3 birch in 4' x8' sheets ... we have 9- 4 1/2" drawers.
9 times 4 1/2" plus the amount lost to the saw kerf, estimate it at 4 3/4" generously, totals out to 42 3/4" plus the top drawer = about 1 sheet of 4' x 8' per cabinet for the sides and the front and back of all drawers.
Here is how our measurements worked out with the 60" height restriction.
42 3/4" for sides, 10- 1/2" floors ( 47 3/4") 7" space under the cabinet floor,(54 3/4") 3- 3/4" horizontal dividers, and the 1/4" space between everything, about 3" ( 57 3/4" ) then 2 1/4" for the top drawer or what ever is left over. Needed material for one cabinet, 2 and 1/2 sheets 60"x 60" x 1/2" baltic birch, 1 -4' x8'x 3/4" plywood for the drawer sides, 1- 4' x8'x 3/4" ply for the cabinet sides, top, bottom and spreader.
Drawer guides--- I used 9- KV 8505 full extention 24" 150 lb. rating guides for the larger drawers and 1- 8400 KV full extention 20" 100lb. rating for the small top drawer. We will need a back, I use 1/4" birch good one side
and since the sides will not be seen I will run it flush to the edges and the top and staple it on. And also some solid stock to edge band the cabinet with will be needed.
I don't know if the way I am writing this is clear. I am trying to share how to build drawers that work , not dovetailed, but drawers this client is paying for because they work. If you don't understand it may be my fault. Let me know.
Shaz

Don Baer

11-29-2006, 03:16 AM

Shaz,
Why are you making the drawer bottom 1/2" thick? I am making a desk for LOML and I am using 1/8" BB for the bottoms?. Those casting can't weight that much.

Robert Schaubhut

11-30-2006, 01:10 AM

Hi Don,
Over the years I have used different matrials for drawer bottoms. In this instance I choose the 1/2" for several reasons.
#1 I wanted a bottom that was without flex in a span of 22" x22" + or - to put the zip lock bags in. You are correct, the 1/4" would work with the 20- 25# but think of the audible sound difference..With the 1/2" mounted from the underside, stapled and screwed the drawer will remain square whether in or out of the cabinet. It becomes more of a box, rather than a four sided drawer with a dado for the floor insert.
#2 With all the bags sticking up, I wanted them to rub gingerly on the flat drawer bottom above all the way out and back in rather than have some of them hit the hang down of the drawer above.
#3 For the look, since the 4 1/2" edge of the plywood sides will be showing, and since we will be routing it all around..the visibility of that 1/2" ply showing in the front is in fact a plus, and rounds over and takes lacquer and 220 grit real well. We want to make sure that "even more Ladies who need new drawers will call because they like our drawers, the look the feel, with no chance of getting a run in the hosiery or snag in the sweater or worse yet... a splinter! :doh: " I think I will start telling the girls "Hey come look at my drawers, I'm proud of my drawers!".:D
#4 price, Floors for me are basically 1/4" birch at about $16.00 a 4'x8' ....32 sq. ft or 1/2" baltic b. at about $18- $21.00 5'x5'...25 sq.ft. Honestly price here does not matter as much as quality and longevity. Over kill will be appreciated here by the client and by you. Oh and I also use the 1/2" baltic birch for alot of my drawer sides too. The drops are worth saving.
Thanks for asking, Good luck Don,
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

12-01-2006, 01:23 AM

Been wanting to push on with this project and make the big girl happy with some new drawers but stuff happens and since she is in no great hurry, "great having a client like that", I have choosen to build two table bases.
My friend had these two table slab, one about 7'x3'x1 3/4" in purple heart, a three piece glue up, and one about 30"x10'x2" bookmatched, spalted pecan.
He needed money so he sold the table tops as a package with the bases, The bases which were not as of yet built, needed built. The buyer was to do the sand and finish. see photos below
Then too the walnut console, 81 1/4" x24" with the left and right side 19" deep and the center 22" deep, on wheels plus... plus.. plus..
anyhow the ladies drawer that I wanted to get back into have been waiting patiently on the sidelines, with me anxiously awaiting my return to that project, a joyful endeavor as most of the projects I do for the ladies are. Something about making a girl feel good!:)
Shaz :)

Robert Schaubhut

12-03-2006, 12:28 AM

Back to the building of the drawers. Remember, we have 9 drawers all the same size in each of four cabinets to build, plus one thin drawer for each of those cabinets also.
Total of 40 drawers all 23 13/26" deep x approximately 22 1/2" wide.
I recap how these dimensions were determined. Using 24" KV 8505 heavy duty full extension drawer guides, 150 lb. rating to fit a 24" deep cavity, and looking at the screw holes in the drawer guides it made sense to me to make the drawersides 23 13/16" deep. Why not 24"? In this instance I felt it better to give the drawers a little space between the back of the drawer and the 1/4" piece I will nail on as a backer, since the cavity was 24" deep.
It is going to take a full sheet of plywood to make drawers for one cabinet. Half of the sheet will be crosscut for sides and half will be used for the front and back.Since I am going to crosscut the 4'x 8' plywood to the" drawer depth , the front to back" dimension first(23 13/16" ) I will cut the sheet in half first. With each saw cut I lose 1/8". First set table saw fence at 47 15/16" and crosscut ( for lack of a better term we will call this new cut line "the cut edge"). Our hope is to achieve a cleaner cut on the plywood than came from the factory. The edge all around the outside of the 4'x8' plywood is called the factory edge. Since I am making 4 cabinets I will crosscut 4 sheets of plywood at 47 15/16". I now have 8 pieces Then resetting the fence to 23 13/16" I will crosscut 4 pieces with " the cut edge" riding against the fence. I have now 8 pieces crosscut at 23 13/16" x 48", with two "cut edges" 48" long and two factory edges 23 13/16" long in line with the grain on each of the 8 pieces.
More later, about the front and back.
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

12-03-2006, 09:45 PM

Our material inventory for drawers now is 8 pieces 23 13/16" x 4' for the sides and 4 pieces 4'x4' to be cut for the front and back. I have come to like the idea of sandwiching the front and back pieces between the two sides. This considered, if the cavity between the two walls( with the drawer guides attached )is determined by the measurement of the width of the floor, the top and the spreader, all being the same width at 23 1/2" , that dimension 23 1/2" less the thickness of the drawer slides( manufactured recommends 1" to 1 1/16" )will equal the outside dimension of the drawer from left to right. Does this make sense so far or is it too much blah blah blah?:huh:
Shaz

Jay Lock

12-03-2006, 11:46 PM

Shaz

so far so good ...............

I missed something I think, are you going to put false fronts on the drawers to hide the ends of the slides?

Jay

Robert Schaubhut

12-05-2006, 02:38 AM

Shaz

so far so good ...............

I missed something I think, are you going to put false fronts on the drawers to hide the ends of the slides?

Jay
Hi Jay,
not sure if I made it clear before but the answer is no. The drawers need to serve a purpose with no need for aesthetics.:type: However, with this same plan, and this is probably why I have spent so much time on these basics principles, you will be expected to create real fronts for your girl's new drawers, maybe like these.:D 1528 Or like these drawers. (If you are a girl and can make your own drawers, my hat's off to you, if I wore a hat.)1529 These are some drawers at the shop where I keep hinges, screws, drawings, knobs, misc. stuff, clips, etc. This is a great project upon which to mount those very special pieces of wood you have been saving. You can showcase some of your wood.:thumb:
Shaz
Pearls here somewhere:rolleyes:

Robert Schaubhut

12-07-2006, 12:58 AM

Homer Faucett

12-07-2006, 03:44 PM

Robert Schaubhut

12-08-2006, 01:06 AM

I've seen quite a few plaster model storage bins used in the dental inudstry, and your design is pretty unique compared to those I am familiar with. Most use about a 9" deep (front to back) pull out bins that are pretty small (about 4.5 inches, like you note), and very shallow (top to bottom). They tend to have removable dividers, and resemble apothecary type drawers (think old school library card storage).

Most I have seen were plastic, and certainly were not "aesthetically pleasing." Then again, none of those ever used ball bearing slides, either, let alone 40 pairs of them.

If these are going to be kept for 10 years (that's longer than I have ever heard . . . wow), there is going to have to be some method for organizing. Are you making removable dividers in each drawer so that indexing cards can be used to identify each plaster cast? If they are just "open" drawers, it will quickly become a mess in there, and it will take forever if a particular cast ever needs to be brought out.
Hi Homer,
Thanks for responding with your comments and questions. I sometimes wonder if I am "playing to an empty house" or am I too long winded, or have confused people to the point that they cannot respond.
I remember the Dewey Decimal System in the library, Do you remember the Peterson Handwriting Method for cursive? Way back.
Anyhow, my client is fitting in about 40 client's teeth per drawer. They have about 2000 client's with castings of their teeth. When finished they will have 45 drawers available for those molds. Also room under each set of drawers for plastic containers if more space is needed.
They will be using plastic bags which can be labeled at the top on the bag, and then drawer computerized for tracking, no dividers and no stacking one atop the other. To find the teeth, find drawer, "card file" through 40 plastic envelopes.
It seems to work for them as I made one drawer unit from which they ordered 4 more with out changes.
Do you do stuff like this?
Shaz

Vaughn McMillan

12-08-2006, 08:40 AM

Shaz, not an empty house from where I'm watching...just sitting back trying to learn, and without much useful to add. (I know, I know, that never stopped me from speaking up before.) ;)

Also, been busy enough with other parts of the forum that I get behind on some of the serial threads like this one. (I'm also hopelessly behind on all the Sketchup tips and tricks Dave's posted oner in the Design forum.)

Keep the story coming...

Homer Faucett

12-08-2006, 04:07 PM

I think most of us just like to sit back and learn, only interjecting when we feel like we have something that may be helpful.

With regard to whether my employment is anything like your client's, my answer would have to be no. One of my first jobs was as a dental lab technician, and I have several friends in the dental "industry", so I've seen different systems for keeping the plaster casts. I used to take the casts and make up dentures . . . if you can keep your real teeth, I highly suggest it! :D

Robert Schaubhut

12-10-2006, 12:20 AM

Robert Schaubhut

12-10-2006, 01:16 AM

We have 4 -4'x4' pieces that we have to cut into drawer fronts and backs. To get the right distance we subtract 1" -1 1/16" for the drawer guides, and the thickness of the two drawer sides, because the front and back fit in between them. For me that is 21 1/8" wide. I will have 23 1/2" between the two walls of the cabinet. I will crosscut and end up with 8 pieces 48" x21 1/8".
Moving forward, we will now set up and rip all of our drawer sides, our fronts and backs at the same setting on the table saw...4 1/2".
We have these two piles, 8 pieces 48"x21 1/8" for the front and the back and 8 pieces 23 13/16"x 48" for the sides. Rather than making a 4 1/2" ripping off a 48" piece let us cut each 48" length into smaller pieces, with maximum material usage, for ease of handling. We need 9 -4 1/2" pieces from each 48" board plus the left over for a shallow drawer at the top. I figured I could rip each sheet at 19", then rip again at 19", set them in a pile and put the drop in another. ( reasoning--4 1/2" + 4 1/2" = 9"... 9" doubled = 18", plus the saw kerf for each cut and 19" increments are fast to figure and allow the factory edge to be cut off at the end. /reasoning)1829
This is a pile of the 4 1/2" pieces cut next to a stack of 1/2" baltic birch cut for the bottoms which have been ripped to 23 13/16" x 60".1830
We will know what the other dimension is when we nail our sides together.

Robert Schaubhut

12-12-2006, 12:46 AM

It would be time to nail through the sides into the front and back pieces if it weren't for the fact that we need to cut in a space for finger entry to easily open the drawers. I use my hand for determining sizes for the cut outs.
1938
We will spend time making sure that the drawer edges are smooth, especially the opening. Rounding over and sanding are in order.
1939
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

12-12-2006, 12:47 AM

Here we have photos of our progress. See # 47 for more progress. :)

Robert Schaubhut

12-12-2006, 12:54 AM

Here we have photos of our progress.
1940
1941

Robert Schaubhut

12-15-2006, 12:49 AM

Moving on, we finished the fronts, routed and sanded
2169 and moved on to glue, nail and screw it.21722170
As can be seen we are moving on down the road toward the "Emerald City".

Jay Lock

12-15-2006, 01:52 AM

Looking Good!

Production line is rolling right along. What are you doing to do for the finish? Will you finish before you put the hardware on?

Jay

tod evans

12-15-2006, 10:20 AM

shaz, you`re not blowin` in the wind! you`re doing a great job of documenting your progress and techniques..thanks! tod

Robert Schaubhut

12-15-2006, 12:42 PM

Looking Good!

Production line is rolling right along. What are you doing to do for the finish? Will you finish before you put the hardware on?

Jay
Hi Jay,
As you can see,the grooved hand pull cutout was routed prior to the nailing as it is easier to do that when in single pieces, but not routed all the way to the end of the board and only on the top, inside and out. We used a 1/4" round over.
2199
Then we sanded the hand pull with 100 grit, nailed the four pieces per drawer together, set aside, repeat, and again.
2200
We then routed the tops of the drawers ( I am getting to your question:D ),and proceeded to sand all the top edges of the C-3 birch plywood sides. With no bottoms we took them outside and set them on their sides, turned up, on edge and shot them with hard sanding sealer, a lacquer, all around the inside making sure to coat the top edge of the drawer with one good coat.
More later,
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

12-15-2006, 12:50 PM

shaz, you`re not blowin` in the wind! you`re doing a great job of documenting your progress and techniques..thanks! tod
Morning Tod,
Nice of you to say, without that kind of input, when typing this stuff :type: we never know if it comes across making sense :rolleyes: or just as useless babble.:huh:
Shaz

Robert Schaubhut

12-15-2006, 10:56 PM

We then, having the width and the exact depth determined by the drawer size nailed together,we can cut our bottoms to a size,just a hair larger than the drawers, 1/16" in width and 1/16" in depth, it is nice to have a little over.
2218
after cutting them out,rout them with a 1/4" roundover bit all around, on the down side(bad side). Rout the end grain of the top veneer first and then continue all the way around. Flip it over and sand the 1/2" bottom on that side.
2220
It will be the useable side of the drawer bottom, Then we shoot that plywood on that side with lacquer.
2219

Robert Schaubhut

01-01-2007, 03:42 PM

We sand the 1/2" ply with 220 real quick and shoot it again with the sanding sealer. Then we proceed to nail these floors to the sides with a 1 1/4" pin nailer spaced accordingly to allow for 1 1/4" screws to be added as marked after the floor is nailed in place. Since the floor is a wee bit larger, get one corner perfectly flush,( floor covering the front and one side perfectly) then add nails. flush up one side perfectly during this nailing starting from the secured corner and work away from it. Then go back to the secured corner and work down the other unnailed leg of the 90 degree corner making sure it is perfectly flush as you go away from the nailed corner. This should make the drawer square. Nail down the rest of the floor add screws. sand the excess floor hanging over the edge2737.
Take the drawer out and spray while upside down, all that needs sprayed.
2738
When dry, add the runner to all drawers. Since we are working from a story pole, we know exactly where to mount our metal runners, and since we figured it all out earlier, the runner on 36 drawers are all centered on a line drawn with the combination square using the same setting for each. Here is a stack of 18 drawers.
2739

Robert Schaubhut

01-01-2007, 04:02 PM

You can see the box is pretty well nailed and screwed together. The top, bottom and the horizontal spacer located between drawer 6 and 7 along with a top cleat and bottom cleat are all Exactly the same width. they are deternined by measuring the width of the drawer then adding 1" to 1 1/16" in width to the drawer measurement to take into account for the drawer slides. After box assembly we add a 1/4" back, just stapled on to help our piece remain square and add drawers.

Jay Lock

01-01-2007, 04:55 PM

Shaz,

You missed a big opportunity to check every other dentist in town and get lots of other orders at the same time., you could have had a big production line set up, rolling those babies off the end at three a day!

Thanks for the great post, it is interesting to see how someone who does this for a living actually does it

Happy New Year

Jay

Robert Schaubhut

01-02-2007, 12:40 AM

Thank you Jay, even though some of us do this for a living it is nice to be thanked, praised or offered criticism. Each of the these will constitute involvement in our life, and take a certain amount of effort. Thanks.
This photo shows a stack of drawers with the runner on the sides2762
Here is a photo of the drawers being inserted.
2763
And as can be seen this is a photo of two of the drawer banks on dollies.
2764
Shaz

tod evans

01-02-2007, 11:25 AM

shaz, what do those stacks weigh empty? i`m bettin` 150-200#, lookin` good! tod

Robert Schaubhut

01-02-2007, 12:50 PM

shaz, what do those stacks weigh empty? i`m bettin` 150-200#, lookin` good! tod
Hi Tod,
Thanks.
I think you are close to right, at your 200# guess. 1 full sheet 3/4" for the box, 1-3/4" sheet for the drawer sides, 2 1/2 sheets of 5'x5'x1/2" baltic birch for the floors, 1/2 sheet of 5'x5'x1/4" for the back, plus a quart of lacquer, give or take a drop, and several spills,:rolleyes: plus 9 pairs of K V 8505x 24", you know they weigh so much they only put 5 in the bulk pack instead of ten, and one pair of the 20" FE 100# drawer slides. I bet with that info either Art, or Frank or Greg can be real close to the exact weight that trapped my foot under the dolly when unloading it in the tight quarters of the Dentist's office.:eek:
I figured...lets load and deliver with drawers installed. Okay, dolly rolls to truck bed, tilt and if back is over wheels, cabinet supported, wheels roll, box lays on tail gate, we lift bottom and slide in. No problem. Same coming out of the truck. Okay, we are there and how do we get it off the dolly?
My thoughts, we have about 54" front to back, cabinet 24" deep, we leave the front of the box overhang the dolly enough to catch the other dolly, then when there, we slip second dolly under front of box lean forward, take out dolly number one, lower box that is teeter tottering on dolly number two til it contacts floor, tilt box back further, extract dolly number two lower box to floor,slide on linoleum and go away. All is fine till teeter totter and lean back stage when while on dolly leaning back, box hits wall, dolly can roll no more forward and box hasn't touched the ground yet, dolly has not started to raise up on the other end yet so I decided to help it, and "drop the box". Well I stuck my foot into the space in the middle of the dolly, to push on the cabinet so we could get the dolly out but the dolly rolled up the cabinet dropped and caught my foot under the dolly frame with the box still on an angle weighting down the dolly, just bearly on the floor in the back. I said " the box is on my foot , the box is on my foot." My buddy was helping think and looking somewhere else at the box, so he didn't hear me. You know the dentist's office is like a library, so you can't hollar.:doh: "I EITHER GET MY FOOT OUT MYSELF OR I WILL STAY STUCK AND DIE HERE":eek: I said to myself quietly.:( TO BE CONTINUED I got ta go to work..

Robert Schaubhut

01-02-2007, 11:17 PM

We can laugh now but I thought I would probably to be left there to rot and be eaten by the buzzards.:( All this passed rapidly before my eyes :eek: and my unwillingness to donate my teeth to dental science or my body to the buzzards somehow allowed me to push/lift box, rearrange dolly a smiggen while extracting the foot I have grown fond of. The dolly flared up, my foot pulled out and the box dropped. All is well that ends well. Another thing to be thankful for!!!!:D 2790
Shaz

Vaughn McMillan

01-03-2007, 04:47 AM

Shaz, I'm not sure I'd want to go to a dentist's office that had buzzards flying around. :D Seems a bit unsanitary.

This has been a great thread to follow. Thanks for the edumacation. :thumb:

Robert Schaubhut

01-13-2007, 02:13 PM

A final set of photos for this tread shows the result of yesterday's work.
step one remove cafe doors and jamb, both sides, couldn't sacrifice integrity of drawer size for a bit more work3242As can be seen we needed the extra little inches3243.
We now had them all in place, the "desired result" when beginning this thread.3244
Now the close up3245replacing the jamb and cafe doors. And finally with all complete, I must say "MY CLIENT WAS HAPPY WITH HER NEW DRAWERS ". ;) 3246. Goodbye Drawers:) :D :thumb: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Who said this wasn't about woodworking?:rolleyes:
Shaz