Sub-Floor - Staples or screws?

Rennie Heuer

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OK - Here's one for all you contractors/home improvement gurus.

The LOML and I have put the fence replacement and kitchen upgrades out a year or two on the schedule so we can replace the very worn out carpet in out LR, DR, and hall this year.

We've picked out a laminate - we have a dog :rofl: - that we like and we are thinking of putting it down at 45 degrees to give the floor more interest.

Our floor is a post and beam, T&G 2x6 with a 1/2" particle board sub-floor. The builder felt it was only necessary to use about 10 or 12 nails for each 4 x 8 sheet of sub floor :(. As I have redone the floors in other rooms I have snapped chalk lines in a 12 x 12 grid and screwed down the sub-floor 12" OC in the field, 6" OC on the perimeter. This has all but eliminated the many many squeaks we had. However, those were smaller areas and I don't think my knees would survive the three rooms and 500 sf we are planning on now.

Here's the question - I see two options.
  1. I can rent a deck screw driver that allows you to stand up while driving the screws and loads from a magazine, or,
  2. I can rent a 1" crown stapler and get down on my knees to do the work.
The screwdriver offers the luxury of standing while I work but requires a much greater amount of time to complete. The stapler has me on my knees but I could probably fasten down the entire floor in less than an hour.

I'm leaning towards the stapler, but I'm a little concerned about holding power. My guess is the staples will do just fine but I'd like some input from those of you who have done this before. Am I over-thinking this? Should I just go with the time-saving staples?:dunno:
 
Staples will eventually pop and move like nails. I always screw down my sub-floor materials when I do remodels.

Would knee pads help?
 
A youngster like you has problems with kneeling? :eek:
I don't have a kneeling problem at all. It's the getting back up that's a killer. :(: rofl:
I would go for the stand-up screw thingy. Wats time? :rolleyes:
 
IMHO, Screws.

Though I do know a contractor who maintained that a framing nailer would hold just as well as screws, since the nails have glue on them. The friction of slamming the nail into place activates the glue. But I have no idea about professional studies, that was just something he mentioned to me a few years back.

Laying the laminate is going to have you on your knees as well, for a fairly long time. Now, not that I'm trying to up-sell you or anything, but nailing down a real hardwood floor involves less kneeling, though plenty of bending. Okay, forget that, laminate is far easier to install. But I dunno about all those 45s you're talking about...
 
OK - I might have spoken too soon. I've called 5 rental places and NO ONE stocks the driver with the extension for doing sub-flooring/decking.

So - the question is still "screws or staples", but now it looks as though I'm back to using my drywall gun on my knees, or, at least, knee pads.:(

BTW - Overwhelming support for screws so far from all of you, :thumb: But I'll wait for a few more votes before I make my final decision. I have time - I'm putting the floor down over the Labor Day holiday.
 
Only screws, the nails will come loose. That little dab of glue on the nail/staple might work on trim but nothing drives me nuts like a squeeky floor. I did a Pergo floor in a 600sf dining room. The screws in the subfloor are every 8" both ways. 100 pounds of screws. Check out the local pawn shops, sometimes you can find the stand up screw guns there. The local Home Depot rents them. Instead of knee pads, I used a garden kneeler. Can't stand the straps that go behind the knee. Have fun.

Great entertainment watching a dog on a laminate floor.:rofl:
 
but now it looks as though I'm back to using my drywall gun on my knees, or, at least, knee pads.:(

Stop!

I haven't got one yet, but an Impact Driver is near the top of my "wish" list. Everything I've read says that they will drive screws better -- and here's the kick for you -- and FASTER than a regular drill/driver.

Sounds to me like you should definitely beg, borrow, or buy one.

...art

ps: Fine Homebuilding has a video testing a bunch of impact drivers
 
Only screws, the nails will come loose. That little dab of glue on the nail/staple might work on trim but nothing drives me nuts like a squeeky floor. I did a Pergo floor in a 600sf dining room. The screws in the subfloor are every 8" both ways. 100 pounds of screws. Check out the local pawn shops, sometimes you can find the stand up screw guns there. The local Home Depot rents them. Instead of knee pads, I used a garden kneeler. Can't stand the straps that go behind the knee. Have fun.

Great entertainment watching a dog on a laminate floor.:rofl:

Screws seems to be the way EVERYONE is telling me to go. Checing out the pawnshops is a good idea - the HD near me does not rent or sell this tool. :(

Stop!

I haven't got one yet, but an Impact Driver is near the top of my "wish" list. Everything I've read says that they will drive screws better -- and here's the kick for you -- and FASTER than a regular drill/driver.

Sounds to me like you should definitely beg, borrow, or buy one.

...art

ps: Fine Homebuilding has a video testing a bunch of impact drivers
Hmmmm...... I've really been wanting one of those..... :D
 
THis is what I use for drywall, siding and sub-floor:

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-6834-4-3-amp-Collated-Screwdriver/dp/B00004YOFC/ref=dp_ob_title. It sets the depth of the screw just right for you. You just adjust the gun for the length of the screw and it's magic.

You can get the screws from your local BORG or Amazon as well.

I use this impact, http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT202...f=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1216151433&sr=1-12, to screw down Hardibacker material. (BTW, the LXT driver is totally awesome also.)
 
That's cool mark - but....pricey! I'll look around and see if one can be rented.

Wait a minute - I just looked at the Senco model of this in HD not 2 hours ago - $99. Good deal?
 
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Rennie,

Another vote for screws. On the other subject: at my age, I will do just about anything to save my knees and back. After all, I need them for the next project! ;)

With that in mind, I googled "autofeed screw gun". Looks like people are fond of the senco (I know nothing about them). Found a model that comes with a flooring attachment for just over $200:

http://www.google.com/search?q=DS30...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Now, if you asked me friday night, before the work started, "do you want to spend 200 bucks to get this done quicker and save your knees and back?", I'd probably say 'Forget it. Hand me another margarita!' But if you asked me sunday afternoon, when the work was done, I'd probably say "I wish I had. Hand me the Advil, please. Ouch!" :doh:

Just something to think about... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
Yes, Senco has a similar model BUT IT IS VERY MUCH NOT THE SAME. I researched far and wide before I chose the Makita. This is actually a newer model. I started using the previous model (6832) 11 or 12 years ago and when it finally bit the dust I looked for (and hoped to high heaven that they made) a new model. Thankfully they did and this one has some nice, updated features.

Amazon shows the 6832 (last version) available from CPO for $99 as well. The tool is very reliable and lasts and lasts when properly taken care of.
 
I too would favor using screws.

On the subject of saving the knees, one option might be (although I haven't used it for this purpose) is one of the chairs/stools on wheels that mechanics use when working on cars or motorcycles. I have one that belongs to my son (previously an auto technician), and I use it all the time doing things low to the ground.

Like I said, I've never used it for putting screws into the floor, but it might be a viable alternative to being on your knees the entire time.

Frank
 
hold on folks!............hardwood over particle board is a MAJOR no-no......it doesn`t matter what fasteners you use to attach particle board it`s still particle board:eek:.......be glad the original contractor only loosley nailed the floor.....put down either plywood or advantek using lotsa construction adhesive and ringshank gun nails.
 
Good Catch, Tod, I had totally missed the particle board bit. I just read "sub-floor".

However, Rennie said Laminate... which to me means that artificial hardboard-type flooring that is "shaped" like hardwood, but isn't really.
 
hold on folks!............hardwood over particle board is a MAJOR no-no......it doesn`t matter what fasteners you use to attach particle board it`s still particle board:eek:.......be glad the original contractor only loosley nailed the floor.....put down either plywood or advantek using lotsa construction adhesive and ringshank gun nails.

Not hardwood - laminate - floating floor. Is that OK?

Good Catch, Tod, I had totally missed the particle board bit. I just read "sub-floor".

However, Rennie said Laminate... which to me means that artificial hardboard-type flooring that is "shaped" like hardwood, but isn't really.

Yes - Fake wood :D
 
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