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Thread: Tenon shoulder problem-looking for suggestion

  1. #1
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    Tenon shoulder problem-looking for suggestion

    I know I should just recut. Problem is, I cant use any more lumber for the chairs. It would leave me short for the table, and this wood is not something I can get around the corner, and Id hate to have to buy one piece and pay for shipping, and so on.

    The shoulder on 2 tenons are a bit curved. curved outside, but the tenon fits perfectly, the shoulders leave a sliver of light passing through a back slat to where it attaches to a leg.
    The joint is not stress bearing, and the glue and screw hold it well.

    Is it repairable without recutting?
    I cannot trim it at all cause it will shorten length of slat, and every slat on chair including seat support are same exact size.
    I really have no idea how to fix a shoulder on a tenon. 2 slightly off out of about 100.
    The lexan zero clearance plate(only 3/32) gave a little from downward pressure Im guessing, and caused me to cut a bit more off.

    i drew a rough, very rough, sketch of the problem and exaggerated the gap to show it.


    the reason I fell short on the wood count, is that orginally I was going to use 5/4 stock for entire frame of chair, but changed the seat supports to 3/4 inch. I have extra 5/4, but I have no way of planing Ipe, nor do I think anyone would actually plane this stuff)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails wood stuff 095 (Medium).jpg  
    Last edited by allen levine; 09-10-2008 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by allen levine View Post
    I have extra 5/4, but I have no way of planing Ipe, nor do I think anyone would actually plane this stuff)
    Um, well, um, what? No way to plane? Ok, let's assume you don't have a planer, or a jointer. You can make a jointer sled for the table saw? Bandsaw it and use a router table?

    Wait, no bandsaw? No router table? Back to the jointer sled!

    There's always a way!

    Thanks,

    Bill

    Or, you could try the glue/sawdust trick...

  3. #3
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    Allen,

    Check out the rip jig on this page: http://www.plansnow.com/tablesawacc.html

    If you can see it, you can make it!

    or this one: http://www.newwoodworker.com/tsjointjig.html

    et, voila! Problem solved...

    Thanks,

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Lantry; 09-11-2008 at 12:58 AM.

  4. #4
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    still lost, dont own jointer, planer or bandsaw.(but trimming anything would make the piece a different length and then it would be too short)I believe anyone planing this stuff must have special equipment or special blades.

    The worst case scenario, whenever I can, Ill have to buy more 3/4 lumber, whenever that is.

    Last edited by allen levine; 09-11-2008 at 01:29 AM.

  5. #5
    Is the tolerance so slight that you can't slice a sliver off the top and tenon to allow the bottom to "bottom out" ??? We are talking chairs here, right? Just today I was working on a piece and the top of the joint snugged up and the bottom didn't, I took a (Japanese style thin cut pull saw) and sliced the shoulder of the joint enough material removed that the rest of the joint fit snug. OKay, so the resulting piece was a "silly millimeter" smaller It worked fine and the joint was fine and the total piece didn't amount to a hill of beans difference. Joint was snug, piece was saved, Only I know the difference.

    Remember we are working with wood and wood will grow or shrink more than we can measure so measurements are not machinist's quality.

    I assembled the joint and as you showed, the piece did not seat snug, so I held the thin blade snug to the mortice piece, pulled a few strokes on both sides and top, removed the thickness of the blade and the piece snugged tight. You can do the same. Or Not.... Just MHO Have a great day with whatever you decide to do.

  6. #6
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    I always keep my cutoffs from my tenon cheeks in case I cut too thin. I would assume the same fix would work for the shoulder. Paw around for the piece you cut off, adjust it a bit as required for a good fit. Glue and clamp it on, wait 24hrs and re-cut.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tenon-fix.jpg  
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  7. #7
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    I've never had that exact situation, but what I might try is to do a trial fitting first. Then I'd cut a small wedge. The wedge will be too big (it will stick up too high), but mark it where it needs to be then remove it and trim it with a sharp knife. (note: align the wedge grain with the board if the wedge will hold together. Otherwise, go with grain direction which will hold together)

    Then do your glueup being careful not to fill the gap with glue. Carefully insert the wedge after the original glue up. Maybe use epoxy glue to fill any space left. Push the wedge down flat where you need it to be. If not tight, the epoxy will fill. After the glue hardens, very carefully trim with a sharp chisel.

    At least that's what I'd try. I'm afraid it will show to those who look closely, however.

    I don't see any way to do it invisibly.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 09-11-2008 at 04:45 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Allen, I would go with Mike's suggestion but a little differently. If I'm understanding your problem correctly you have a gap in the joint where the leg is curved? Cut a wedge of scrap wood, glue it to the slat in the gap area matching grain direction, then carefully shape the joint to fit. Do this before gluing the slat to the leg and make sure it fits before the final glue up (slat to leg). I would not go with power tools to shape this, shape it by hand using sanding blocks, sharp knives, files, scraper ... whatever you have and feel comfortable with. If you match the grain and carefully glue the wedge in, it should come out close to invisible. Bring plenty of patience and take your time and it should come out unnoticeable. Good Luck .....

    Tony
    Last edited by Tony Falotico; 09-11-2008 at 10:16 AM.

    Tony, BCE '75

  9. #9
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    I was hoping when I came down this morning, something changed.
    Not the case, so I had alot of slivers, and I sanded one down to about less than the 1/16th , and wedged it in as suggested.
    Trimed it first, then used the chisel to shape it exactly around the slat.
    Ill sand it eventually when I final sand the chairs to be coated.

    I took a pic, it comes out too blurry, doesnt pay to post, cant really see it or the correction, but it looks fine with the wedge in there.
    Thankyou for the suggestions, onward.
    (Im in over my head, I should have stuck with adirondack chairs)

  10. #10
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    allen, great that you got this fixed...but i have a problem with your last statement. just because you messed up one complicated joint doesn't mean you're in over your head. the one thing i've learned in a lifetime of hobby woodworking is that i will make mistakes and the success of most projects depends on how clever i can be in fixing them. if we just made the same items over and over again we could get the process perfect but who wants to do that???

    keep cutting wood.
    99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name...Steven Wright.

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