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Thread: Shoulder Plane Project: Moving Forward

  1. #1

    Shoulder Plane Project: Moving Forward

    In another thread I brought up this shoulder plane to show what can be done with a TIG machine, some stainless steel and some wood. For the last year this plane's progress has kind of stalled. I got some inherent problems with it, but after a year of thinking I think I figured some of them out.



    You can see in the picture two problems. The first is the mile wide gap between the blade and the body of the plane. At Lie Nielsen I think the dimension was something like .015...obviously .150 is NOT going to work well. I can't weld much on this guy any more because its riveted with wood and the wood will burn. But I was thinking maybe if I machine out inch of the front sole I could machine a piece that would slide in the slot...an adjustable mouth like what is used on Lie Nielsen's 9 block plane. The sole of this thing is 3/4 inch stainless square stock so I have plenty of solid metal to mill into.

    Now on LN's 9 they use the top knob to hold and tighten the mouth but that would be problematic here. I was thinking if I simply used four set screws the mouth could be adjusted to the blade with a feeler gauge. A set it, and forget it kind of thing. I am not keen on having four set screw holes on the side of this thing really, but function is more important then looks at this point.

    My question is, do you think this idea has merit? If you don't can you think of another way to tighten the gap between the blade and the mouth of the sole?

    The second problem is more cosmetic. You can see in the picture one of the rivets has a pin hole in it. I'd like to dab in a drop of brass, but brass takes in incredible amount of heat and it will burn and char the rood its riveted too. Any ideas on how I can fix that rivet so that it looks a bit better?
    Last edited by Travis Johnson; 12-05-2008 at 09:32 AM.
    I have no intention of traveling from birth to the grave in a manicured and well preserved body; but rather I will skid in sideways, totally beat up, completely worn out, utterly exhausted and jump off my tractor and loudly yell, "Wow, this is what it took to feed a nation!"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    4,632
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Johnson View Post

    The second problem is more cosmetic. You can see in the picture one of the rivets has a pin hole in it. I'd like to dab in a drop of brass, but brass takes in incredible amount of heat and it will burn and char the rood its riveted too. Any ideas on how I can fix that rivet so that it looks a bit better?
    Hi Travis if I understood weel this pin will be put once and left there, won't it?
    Then why not give it the same sort of treatment that the other got, which I guess is a countersink hole and peening after + milling and polish...?
    Best regards,
    Toni

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________
    web site:http://www.toniciuraneta.com
    I also dream of a shop with north light where my hands can be busy, my soul rest and my mind wander...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    583
    Travis,
    i'm glad to see this project resurrected. It looks great. I've got an idea or two about the gap at the mouth and the hole in the rivet (surprised?).
    About the mouth, i really like your idea of the adjustable toe. I have one on my shoulder plane and actually do adjust it from time to time, switching from hard end grain to edge or face grain work. I've only had my shoulder plane about a year, so it's still pretty new to me, but it didn't take more than ten minutes to really appreciate it's value and utility.

    I guess my first question would be "why not use the front knob to loosen and tighten the toe"? The base of the knob looks certainly large enough to cover the short "slot" you'd need for the narrow range of adjustment you'd want on the toe. I think that, if you milled a v-groove along the bottom of the plane body where the toe would slide and topped the toe piece with a matching ridge, alignment would not be a problem, eliminating the need for side screws. Once you tightened the top knob, pulling the toe piece snug to the plane body, the ridge would seat firmly into the groove, aligning perfectly every time. The ridge and v-groove wouldn't even need to run the full length of the toe - you wouldn't need to extend it all the way to the front of the plane or the mouth opening. It could be concealed as long as the ridge was a bit shorter than the corresponding groove allowing it to slide forward or backward. Or, for that matter, the toe piece could be a solid triangular section it's full length - go ahead and show it at the front of the plane - a distinguishing feature. It could be made from a good hardwood or contrasting metal. The other common approach is to incorporate an adjustment screw into the front of the shoulder plane, allowing precise adjustment of the toe / mouth opening. My plane has this. It's not what i'd call a necessary thing. When the toe / plane body mating surfaces are machined well, it's pretty easy to get precise adjustments sliding it along with your finger tips or using gentle taps from a piece of wood.

    The other way to address the mouth gap is by shimming under the cutting iron. I've seen this done effectively with wooden shoulder planes. Sandpaper is often used, but you could build up the iron bedding some other way. This approach might wreak havock on your depth adjustment mechanism, not knowing exactly how it works. There might be enough depth in the adjuster / blade engagement to deal with a this.

    About the pin hole in the rivet. Short of filling it with molten material, the next best thing might be a friction fit with a small pin or hardwood dowel (matching the hardwood wedge or infill). The filler pin would be a thousandth or two bigger than the hole and pressed into place. I know it's pretty small stuff, but i would think it could be done. It might involve enlarging the hole a bit and possibly centering it if it's not already centered, but it could effectively fill the hole and add another "detail" to the plane. If you dont' want to see the fix, you'd probably need to drill it out and insert a new rivet.

    I love watching your plane projects. Keep up the good work Travis.

    Paul Hubbman

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Johnson View Post
    You can see in the picture two problems. The first is the mile wide gap between the blade and the body of the plane. At Lie Nielsen I think the dimension was something like .015...obviously .150 is NOT going to work well. I can't weld much on this guy any more because its riveted with wood and the wood will burn. But I was thinking maybe if I machine out inch of the front sole I could machine a piece that would slide in the slot...an adjustable mouth like what is used on Lie Nielsen's 9 block plane. The sole of this thing is 3/4 inch stainless square stock so I have plenty of solid metal to mill into.

    Now on LN's 9 they use the top knob to hold and tighten the mouth but that would be problematic here. I was thinking if I simply used four set screws the mouth could be adjusted to the blade with a feeler gauge. A set it, and forget it kind of thing. I am not keen on having four set screw holes on the side of this thing really, but function is more important then looks at this point.

    My question is, do you think this idea has merit? If you don't can you think of another way to tighten the gap between the blade and the mouth of the sole?

    The second problem is more cosmetic. You can see in the picture one of the rivets has a pin hole in it. I'd like to dab in a drop of brass, but brass takes in incredible amount of heat and it will burn and char the rood its riveted too. Any ideas on how I can fix that rivet so that it looks a bit better?
    Last edited by Paul Hubbman; 12-05-2008 at 04:28 PM.

  4. #4
    Interesting ideas Paul. I think putting the slot in from up top would be problematic. The slot would have to be deep, yet small in diameter, so deflection on the mill might be an issue. Another access point perhaps is located on the ramp sloping forward in the oval chip clearing area. A countersunk screw there would not be too ugly yet allow movement. Access for drilling could be done from under the plane, but drilling the countersink in such a tight spot might be problematic.

    I really like the idea of a vee shaped piece sliding back there to get the mouth tightened up. Vee shapes are easier to mill, but a dovetail shape might be easier to keep aligned. I got some more thinking to do on that.

    In fact you got me thinking which means I should hold off and continue to think this through.
    I have no intention of traveling from birth to the grave in a manicured and well preserved body; but rather I will skid in sideways, totally beat up, completely worn out, utterly exhausted and jump off my tractor and loudly yell, "Wow, this is what it took to feed a nation!"

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