The liitle green hoard

Paul Downes

Member
Messages
959
Location
Westphalia, Michigan
I spent the afternoon out in the woods with 4 of my boys cutting firewood. The next week is going to be in the single digits to minus temps. I have been cleaning up a friends woods and was thinking about logging out all the ash trees before the emerald ash borer gets them. Too late.:( I was taking a break and fueling up the chain saw and looked up at the top of a nearby ash and immediately saw the tell-tale signs of the invasion. Did a quick survey and found that all the ash trees were infected. There is 16 + ash that are 20" plus diameter and loads of smaller trees. I SURE WISH I HAD THAT SAWMILL I've been pining for. Anyone want some ash lumber? I've been plotting for a number of years to get a Petersen sawmill. You can saw the infected trees on site and move the lumber, but you can't haul the infected logs. I should have lots of firewood for several years so there is a bright side.

This is the same woodlot that I posted about putting a bridge over a creek to gain better access. I had entertained thoughts about putting a pier in the middle of the creek to support the bridge beams. I got lots of advice to run away from that idea. Last week I found an old truck trailer bed. This trailer frame was going to be cut up for scrap. It is 48 to 53' long and 8-1/2 ft. wide. I'm waiting to see what the owner wants for it. If the price is right, we will have a first class bridge. I wonder if ash planks are good decking?.............
 
Sure sorry to hear the bug bit your trees. As I understand it, any wood with bark cannot be transported so rough cut needs to be debarked. Slab wood will stay on your property. Wonder how far this bug will eventually go?
 
It would seem that the bug will eventually spread throughout the country. My dad was an entomologist and worked on some invasive species but he was a fly guy. It would be nice to have an interdiction of some kind. We need mini bird robots that kill according to programing. I asked a state entomologist who was assigned to work on the emerald ash borer project if they were noticing that the bug was spread on the waterways. (rivers and streams). She couldn't answer the question. I figure that after storms they might get transported downstream and find ash trees further away. Otherwise they spread a mile or 2 every year unless some idiot hauls a load of ash firewood 2-3oo miles as have some people. I'm no environmentalist in the modern sense. I'm not cause related. However I'm getting sick of invasive species and the damage they do our native flora and fauna. We need very stringent laws to protect our natural resorces. In Michigan we have; Dutch elm disease, emerald ash borer, and oak leaf wilt wreaking havoc in the woods right now. All presents form other countries. See all the benefits of 'free trade'. Makes the firewood guys happy. :D
 
First I have heard of this. Very tragic event. Ash is a fine wood and valuable resource for a number of reasons.
Something got the chestnut a long time ago.
Then the elm.
When we were in Colorado last summer, there were large patches of mountain forest that had gone brown. I don't know what the trees or infestations were, but it's not good fer sure.
You have a mixed curse/blessing with this situation.
 
Sorry to hear about your loss.

Owning a woodlot is wrought with perils and like you, I am struggling with infestations myself. I am currently clear-cutting a 12 acre tree plantation suffering from a Hackmatack Bark Beetle infestation. I planted these trees in 1994 so its sad to see their demise. Like yourself I figured the kill was somewhere around 4-5 trees per acre (620 trees per acre standing), but its more like 300 trees per acre. Its sad.

But as for your dire prediction, I hope I can give you a glimmer of hope here. I can understand why looking up and seeing so many dead trees makes many think all is lost, but its not really. In my lifetime alone (34 years) Maine has been through the Spruce Budworm epidemic, a Japanese Bark Beetle, the Hackmatack Bark Beetle, White Pine Blister Rust and Hemlock Blight. We have survived them all, and in most cases it was limited to a region. (Maine) Better yet, eradicating the problem was quite simple, it just took awhile to figure out what the problem was.

I think you'll see that the Emarld Ash Borer will be limited to the mid-west. There are some really good forest pathologists working on this issue so there is light at the end of the tunnel. I know the Maine Forest Service is watching for it of course, and intense educational programs are in force here (I have a "Don't move firewood...It bugs me" bumper sticker on my car from the campaign).

As for your question regarding Ash as planking, I unfortunately have to give you my grim experience with that. It failed terribly. I had lots of left over ash lumber a few years ago and decided a deck made of free wood was better then of a deck made from ideal wood and never built; because of the cost of that ideal wood. Ash does poorly outside and my 1 inch deck boards rotted in 5 years time. Of course the wood is free, but I'm afraid planking a bridge and having it rot out in a few years time would not justify the out lay in work. Only you can decide that, but I won't build an outside project with ash ever again. It rotted extremely fast.
 
And I feel bad every time I pass a firewood seller - I see unmade WWing projects.

I hope you can get all of the infested trees down and not miss any. Too bad there isn't some sort of "toxic to bad bugs but not trees" mineral stake or something you could fertilize them with.

Feel sad for the poor trees. But more sad for the wasted lumber.
 
There are some chemicals one can introduce into the trees circulatory system to kill the bugs or keep them from eating anything, but it is expensive and limited to homeowner use for practical reasons. I did some tornado cleanup in Lansing, Mi. last summer and as I toured some of the nearby neighborhoods the dead ash trees were all over the place. It has to be an economic hardship for most people to have a tree trimming service come in to remove the dead trees. Many of them were pushing 75 ft. tall. I would think that when they start dropping big limbs that government help will have to be sought.
 
It is indeed a sad sight to see dead trees, no matter what the state or what the disease. We saw this for nearly a decade when the Spruce Budworm hit. Kind of makes you sick doesn't it?

5933


As for me, I try to do my part by not moving trees across state lines. I know the chances are low at transporting disease, but I still hate it. When my Uncle brought live trees back from Texas I told him just what I thought about that. Nothing against Texas trees, but we got a lot of trees here that people rely on for a livelihood. I in turn have refused to let people dig up my trees and take them back home to Oregon or wherever for the same reason. I strongly encourage others on here to be wary of transporting trees.

Our highbred hack bark beetle disease came from Japan and our Hemlock Blight came from MA...we got to protect our forests by keeping trees local (in my opinion of course).
 
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Man, from that picture Travis, someone has a lot of cutting to do. I got an update from the guy who owns the old truck trailer bed. Looks like the price is going to be $200-$250. :thumb::thumb::D. Looks like we're going to be installing a first class bridge this year. It will make getting all the dead ash trees out easier. The farmer told me that if I could cut and market the logs he would split the profits with me. I just have to get that sawmill!!!
 
Thanks Paul...I was afraid that my post was making it sound like I was trying to hyjack your thread. I just know that when an infestation happens it seems like all is lost. The truth is mother nature has a reason for it despite what us humans have for plans.

I know as a farmer weeds often plague us, but actually its nature way of saying a soil imbalance is occuring. That is, a nutrient is defecient or nutrient rich causing what we don't want to grow, to thrive. Find out what the problem is and you can reverse it. The problem with us is, we found weed killers are easier to apply then thought and detective work.

Its that way with forests too. For whatever reason, disease hits a certain tree. Why I am not sure, but its survival of the fittest even in trees. I would be devastated if the Ash Borer came here as my land is teeming with Ash. Still if history repeats itself, we will get through it. I was hoping to convey to you hope. I truly wish you and your ash the best of luck.
 
The Spruce Budworm outbreak of the 1980's was devastating on several levels. The first was the trees and to try to clean up the mess thousands upon thousands of aces of woods were harvested of the dead trees. Unfortunately public memory lasts only 7 years so by the time the clean-up was through, most had forgotten why. Suddenly clear-cutting was seen as bad, when in fact it was a salvage operation.

In its wake those same acres were replanted, but now that clear-cutting has so many restrictions all those trees, growing at the same rate and age, will need to be harvested on the same grandeur scale. With the current laws, that cannot happen, so you have public perception, and lack of memory getting in the way of sound forest management.

But I won't say the paper companies were faultless. Harvesting wood up there like this was before my time, but I talked with many loggers who did. The softwood came out, but hardwood did not. They were not spared however. The loggers were told to cut every hardwood tree down but don't bother to drag it out. The thousands of cords of hardwood were simply left to rot because the paper companies prefer softwood over hardwood. It was a way to eradicate hardwood from their stands. It was a waste of epic proportions.
 
And I feel bad every time I pass a firewood seller - I see unmade WWing projects.

I hope you can get all of the infested trees down and not miss any. Too bad there isn't some sort of "toxic to bad bugs but not trees" mineral stake or something you could fertilize them with.

Feel sad for the poor trees. But more sad for the wasted lumber.

Its a common comment I have heard over the years but one that may or may not hold merit. Recently I cut about 3 cords of hardwood that were huge in size...maybe 3 feet in diamter on the big end. Ash and Maple mostly, and yes it all went into firewood even though we have 3 sawmills on-farm.

That's because not all big trees are destined for sawlogs. Yes these trees were big, but they got that way because they were located in a sag between two fields.With wet roots and lots of sun, they grew big. But here is why they never went to the sawmill. With all that light, they also grew big limbs...and lost of them. In fact this stuff was so short and limby that I would not call it good firewood even. I would have burned the trees after felling them where they landed if it had not been for my brother and best friend willing to cut such limby trees into firewood.

The truth is, getting high quality sawlogs takes a long time, and a lot of luck. Firewood is the livestock equivalent of culling inferior animals. There is nothing wrong with cutting trees into firewood to allow the better trees to attain that lofty goal of becoming a sawlog.

No need to drive past those piles of firewood and feel sad mark. Sometimes firewood is all that tree is destined for. Good for them!
 
When I worked logging there was a big controversy going on with the tie-dyed bunch on one side and the loggers on the other. I found it funny to be called a land raper by some of those tree huggers. Most city folks don't understand what good forestry practices are. In their view cutting any trees down must be clear cutting. We only did TSI cuts and earned a reputation as being careful and respectful of the property we were cutting on. I usually have to do some education whenever I cut on someones private property. I recently removed a 4' dia. white oak from a river that was causing a major log jam. It took me a half hour to convince the actual landowner that the job needed to be done. The plus side is now he is more informed and I made sure he benefited from the job. I still owe him a load of firewood as well. :D

I try to never take things or people at face value. There's usually more to the story and a little patience and jawboning can pave the way to better understanding. The whole controversy in Michigan's UP was over the proposed building of another paper mill. After the company nixed it's plans because of the uproar it was discovered that the organizer of the tie dyed tree hugger crowd was actually the son of a Mead company executive. Capitalism in action!
 
When I worked logging there was a big controversy going on with the tie-dyed bunch on one side and the loggers on the other. I found it funny to be called a land raper by some of those tree huggers. Most city folks don't understand what good forestry practices are. In their view cutting any trees down must be clear cutting. We only did TSI cuts and earned a reputation as being careful and respectful of the property we were cutting on. I usually have to do some education whenever I cut on someones private property. I recently removed a 4' dia. white oak from a river that was causing a major log jam. It took me a half hour to convince the actual landowner that the job needed to be done. The plus side is now he is more informed and I made sure he benefited from the job. I still owe him a load of firewood as well. :D

I try to never take things or people at face value. There's usually more to the story and a little patience and jawboning can pave the way to better understanding. The whole controversy in Michigan's UP was over the proposed building of another paper mill. After the company nixed it's plans because of the uproar it was discovered that the organizer of the tie dyed tree hugger crowd was actually the son of a Mead company executive. Capitalism in action!

Its the same way here.:eek: Near me they are trying to build a new Containerized Cargo Port on a 900 acre island. It only makes sense as we are the first stop from Europe in the USA, but the huggers want the island for themselves.

Just last month a deal was almost reached where the State Dept of Transportation would get 300 acres, and the Huggies would get 600 acres of preserve, but then an email surfaced between the Sierra Club and the Local Huggie Organization that said "Get the agreement and then will will fight the port permitting process so we get it all." So the DOT said, when we get all the permits for the port, you'll get your agreed upon 600 acres and all will be good." The huggies began to cry foul to every publication that would back their silliness.

Oh the DOT does silliness too, but in this case it actually made sense and they were doing what they were elected to do...promote transportation.
 
Sears Island is a unique place actually. Growing up there was a road out to the island, but you had to wait to low tide to drive to it, then had to beat the tide back or else get stuck out there for another 11 hours. That's because the the tide would come in and 12 feet of water submerged the road!

It was a fun place to go, dig up clams, have a bon fire and cook up some clams and camp out on the ocean. Then the state built a causeway to the island in anticipation of the cargo port being built. It would have made Sears Island more accessible if they had not put up a big fence and kept everyone out.

They also hauled in thousands of yards of gravel and piled it up and then cleared the trees in preparation for the cargo port. Then in 1997 they decided the port would not be built, so the DOT hauled the gravel back off the island. Then they had the family earthwork company go in and "put back the land as best we could."

This was odd as it was the first time in my life I have ever planted stumps. No lie. The DEP had me pull out the stumps that were bulldozed a few years before, and replant them back in the ground with an excavator. And they got mad when I tried to make it look smooth and level too. Nope they wanted stumps stuck up here, there and everywhere. It looked so ugly and stupid, not to mention I was putting back half-rotted stumps and no trees or grass. It made absolutely no sense back then, and now that the cargo port may go back in, so all that rework will be redone.

In the meantime the fence is still up so no one can use 900 acres of prime island that we have had when I grew up.
 
Travis:

Thanks for explaining. Learned something from your post.

There is a guy near me who is a Professor at an environmental college and takes waste and firewood seriously. You would not associate sheep and firewood nessisarily, but sheep have this insatiable desire for tree leaves. In fact they prefer it over green grass.

So he cuts down a tree, fences in the felled tree with temporary fencing and then allows his sheep to graze the leaves for a few days. When the tree is stripped of its leaves and smaller stems, he removes the sheep and then cuts what remains into firewood. The only thing that remains is the stump!
 
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