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Thread: Help! Help! Grizzly Jointer help needed.(UPDATE problem solved) see latest post!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada

    Help! Help! Grizzly Jointer help needed.(UPDATE problem solved) see latest post!

    Hi All

    I hope someone here is wise enough or has a grizzly type jointer that has a similar fence to mine. G586

    I set it up at 90 degrees and then joint the edge of a board and after its out of square. So thinking something is loose i tighten up all the cap screws etc again and reset and the same issue.

    So now I am mystified. Dont know where the problem is coming from but I am getting mad because i jointer a wedge out of my slab of pine i have glued up for my workbench.

    Been trying to get the edges of the various slabs square before gluing them up together as a single top.

    Something aint right here. Even with the fence not 90 I should not be making a wedge.

    Okay hit me with everything you got I need the help and asap i am burning daylight. Will get on with another task in the meantime.

    Thanks in advance for any guidance
    Last edited by Rob Keeble; 07-10-2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason: edit heading

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Constantine, MI
    OK - you've probably checked all these already:

    • You've checked that the infeed and outfeed tables are 90 to the fence
    • your tables are coplanar
    • you're pressing the wood primarily to the fence as you feed, not the tables
    • you're transferring your weight/push to the outfeed side once you are 1/4 to 1/3 of the way through
    “We all die. The goal isn't to live forever; the goal is to create something that will.” - Chuck Palahniuk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    No, not all of SoCal is Los Angeles!
    First my disclaimer that I am no expert and I only speak from what I do . . . I think that by "wedge" you mean that the material is not remaining an equal thickness. This can happen when jointing and the planer will solve that once you have a flat face.

    If the fence is at 90* for it's length (no twist in the fence) and you are not getting a 90* cut all along the length of your material in relation to the fence, I would suspect the surface that is being held against the fence for reference is not flat along it's length(?).

    I have better success when jointing longer material when I have good support at the infeed and outfeed. The material should be able to be positioned ahead of the cutter and set there (on the bed and the infeed roller stand) without being touched. The material should then be able to be fed smoothly clear through the cut and end in a supported position at the outfeed where it will again, set still without you hanging on. In other words, if I have to use excessive force to keep the material on track, I generally don't get a realible cut.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 07-04-2009 at 05:57 PM.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Sacramento, CA
    I have a G0586 but I can't think of anything model-specific that would produce the symptoms you describe.

    The first thing I wanna ask is which bed you set the fence to 90 degrees on?

    Always set your fence to 90 of the OUTFEED table - that's the one that matters because that's what the freshly jointed edge rides on. If your jointer is setup properly, that it won't matter, but just in case. Also, are your knives 100% parallel with the outfeed table also? ALL of them - it's easy to miss one of the 4 knives, I have :P

    Second, if the stock can't rest on the jointer through out the entire travel of it's run without someone holding it there, you'll be spending time holding it and that can throw the cut off.

    If you're getting a tapered piece, that's normal with jointers. They're not meant to make parallel surfaces and nothing guarantees they'll take a uniform amount of wood off from one end to the other unless that edge is already perfectly straight.

    If you're getting a bevelled piece (the fresh edge is not square to the face that ran against the fece), then it is likely a technique situation if the jointer's properly setup. If the face you're resting against the fence is more than double the width of the fence itself, it can get pretty tough to hold that thing square. It takes extra care, maybe even a couple really strong feather boards on the infeed table, to make sure it stays square all along the path of travel.

    It's also possible to get a taper if your technique is off so just to be sure, let's review that: Rest the stock on the infeed table and turn the jointer on. Press it against the fence about 10% in from its leading edge and put your rear hand about 60-75% from the leading end, also pushing against the fence. Push the first 15-20% of the board through and then bring your rear hand up past the cutter head, pressing downward against the infeed table and forward to keep feeding. Now you do this hand-over-hand dance between your front and rear hands, each doing its respective jobs - at this point it becomes Fence hand and Outfeed hand - one presses against the outfeed table, the other presses against the fence until the entire length of the board is completely fed through. The idea is that you want to ensure you're referencing botht he fence and the outfeed table for the entire pass. This is why having to also combat the weight of an oversized board makes it practically impossible to get a good cut.

    Hope that helps
    Jason Beam
    Sacramento, CA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada
    Oh how i had hoped to get this done yesterday. But visitors etc got in the way.

    Thanks all of you for the quick response. I just wasn't able to use it until today.

    I will try out all the advice, but just after posting yesterday did a quick search on the web and found an article about the same jointer where a guy who seemed to be in the know was complaining about the tables not being co planar and the problems with the fence holding 90 degrees.

    I suspect that i have an issue with the co planar aspect since the wedge issue (which i understand all that you guys are saying in your feedback)is a part of flattening is more pronounced than when one is merely getting some as the board gets flatter. I would normally expect to see the flattnes progress up the lenth of the board as you get it flatter and flatter with each pass. This is not what was happening.

    When the board (this is a glued up slab of boards) gets past the jointer knives with all the pressure on the outfeed side and keeping it up against the fence, the board looks as though a gap forms between it and the infeed table. If the two planes of the two tables are not parallel then this would cause a ever increasing wedge from what i understand. This is what i think I am experiencing now.

    I have to say I am not sure but I will be going to the shop just now to check. Strange thing is when I did the faces of my slabs and focused on the face flatness I got them perfectly together. I could take them and put them on top of each other and interchange them and there would be absolutely no light gap and that is across 7 inch wide slab. They almost stuck to each other they were that flat. It was such a joy to do.

    This all only started when after i had used that flat face to thickenss plane the whole bunch I then started to joint all the edges using the good faces i had created. So something is not consistent.

    Going to go out and give it a try on another single board and see if the problem perpetuates after tightening everything up again and seeing if i can get the fence to hold ninety.

    When i took the fence apart yesterday to check in things i noticed that the fence merely pivots (B in the picture) on some set screws ( A in the picture) that are pointer and expected to seat in what is painted holes that looked at first glance like they had been drilled with an ordinary HSS drill. Attachment 34234
    So the bearing point for the set screw is not exactly bearing on the sides of the hole recess. In this situ I do not see these points taking much to displace them and put the fence off.
    Loosing the fence setting then tightening it up again would allow resetting to 90 but pushing a slab like i am up against the fence could easily dislodge a pin especially if they were not totally snug in the first place.

    Part of me wants to drill out the paint and match the pivot hole to the point on the set screw to get the bearing surface enlarged and ensure less side to side play.

    Not sure anyone can understand what i have said if you can please comment. Jason have you had any issues with your fence being loose?

    This is one of the issues this guy had with his jointer in the thread i found.

    Well any further light anyone can throw on this would be a big help to my sanity.

    Thanks again all for your assistance, really appreciate the double checking myself since this is my first jointer and I am just starting out.
    Yesterday dented the glee i had from the prior week when i was churning out the shavings without concern for the precision.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Inside the Beltway

    I believe you about the thing getting knocked out of whack. Don't know what I'd do to fix it, but might wonder if I weren't asking too much of the machine? As I understand it, those are some serious chunks of wood? 3" wide, 8" deep, 8 feet long? Something like that? Not sure the machine was designed for that kind of thing. What are you using for infeed and outfeed support? Roller stands?

    Which begs the question of what you're trying to do. When I built my bench, I glued the boards up into 10" wide sections, and ran them through the planer so they'd all be the same height. Then I glued the sections up. Of course, I made mine out of dimensional lumber I got at the borg, and I knew it was going to move all over the place. And even if it weren't, there was no way in heck those long boards were gonna be straight, so I didn't even bother trying to joint them.

    It's important they be the same height, but is it really important the edges be *exactly* square? There's no way I could maneuver such big pieces across my jointer and hope for a good result. In fact, even trying it would be durned dangerous for me...



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada
    Well Bill I have to joint the edges of the slabs to be able to glue them up together.

    I have been giving the whole thing a lot of thought. I think most jointers probably suffer from the same thing however most guys probably never experience the problem because the the lumber they are jointing probably has some give in it. Hence when it goes over the cutter and they push down on the outfeed the plank stays on the infeed due to being able to bend with the pressure used to push it through the cutters.

    However there is no give in a slab of laminated boards and hence when i push down on the outfeed it lifts ever so slightly to match the error of tables being non co planer. Of course over 6 ft a small error will be amplified and that is why i am experiencing the back end of the board not being flattened properly. So the front portion gets a shaving and the back stays thick and the process continues regardless of the number of passes.

    I think the problem will sort itself out if i do one of two things.

    1) Go to the trouble of shiming the gibs to get the two beds into the same plane
    2) Reverse joint a board after i have jointed it once in one direction.

    I think the fence and squareness is a different story. Have not come up with what the issue is there except to right it down to potentially loose screws and nuts.

    I will wait a few days and see if any guys come up with anything during the week.

    Thanks for the input.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada

    Update to the jointer problems

    Hi All

    Thank you very much for all the advice I do appreciate the input and took it all to heart.

    Heres the result.

    I suffer from being a perfectionist one that even makes me upset with myself at times. Sometimes i just cant kick the habit.

    Well this whole jointer thing troubled me and after reading and watching a ton of stuff on the web, and having convinced myself that it was the China made jointer, I set out to prove the jointer problem and fix it as many others have done.

    Except wait for it....I was wrong and i am only tooo happy to admit it.

    Yeah my fence needed tightening up and warning to all in the process i busted a socket screw that pivots the fence. M8 so easily replaceable i thought except that they have a conical head. So i ground my own. Not perfect but acceptable for the time being. Will have to get a couple from Grizzly some time thats not easy and i tried Busy Bee while there but stock of spares on their is limited and believe it or not imperial.

    What i came to realize is that every shop needs a real decent straigt edge as a reference. Had a look at LV and boy they are pricey for a piece of steel or aluminum that is simply accurately edged.

    So believe it or not, Busy Bee tools came to my rescue in this recession. They currently have a 50 inch straight edge for $29 Canadian.
    Claim its accurate to 0.0015 inch over the length. Good enough for me.
    Also got a metric/imperial feeler gauge set for $4 at the same time

    Well here is the real news. Put this on the jointer last night and voila my tables are perfectly flat. So it was all operator error and fence bolts being loose. My apologies to Grizzly i am only too happy to say.

    Then I thought (in typical paranoia...what can i say i grew up in the cold war) okay still it must be the knives (could not be me Eh!) so i finally got one of those domed tips for my dial indicator gauge and went to town putting it down on my now "flat bed". What a difference it made to using the dial indicator. Now i know my blades are set perfectly relative to the outfeed table.

    So KUDUS Grizzly for what i paid $650 for a 3HP 8 inch jointer ( and they threw in the mag switch seperately) I am as happy as can be. By the way my error I have a G0 656 the 3hp 220v version not the 2hp version.

    Pics to prove

    Attachment 34356

    Attachment 34357

    Attachment 34358

    Thanks again for the tips and warnings ya all. I will now update my thread on my bench with the latest shots.

    One thing i meant to add to this post is a comment about the fence. I looked at others while at Busy Bee and also looked at the famous Delta 8 inch unit dj something or other. I can see why the delta unit ( a parrallel adjusting type) is so expensive. Very different fence and mechanically obvious you aint moving that baby. But for a hobbyist at double the price and more in Canada, I could drive to Grizzly and back and pay for my trip, stop over and buy other great tools and still be in the money. But the saying is true you get what you pay for obviously.

    If anyone has tips for how to take the movement out of these fences without cracking the casting ( yeah i have a friend that used to service these things and said that he had seen it several times before) then please let me know. I have to reset it and check it after each board or slab right now.
    Last edited by Rob Keeble; 07-10-2009 at 01:05 PM. Reason: add to post

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Does this mean I can put the private behind the scenes tour of Grizzly corporate office back on the possible things to do for Tour DeWood 2010?

    I was beginning to think it might be a bad idea. It might have been a little uncomforable if we meet with the founder Shiraz Balolia and you start telling him that he sold you a very large boat anchor.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada
    Another one Bill .

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