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Nice Joke...I'll forward it to my Father in law with some changes. I'll add that a "Blue Knight" walked up to a "Hell's Angel biker" only because he is a member of the Blue Knights and hates Pit Bulls...I'm not sure about the Hell's Angels members though....

As for me, I am just glad there is no animal in Maine that will harm a human unless deliberately provoked. No poisonous snakes, no cougars, no grizzly bears...nothing. The only thing that comes close is a Fisher and those are pretty small in size (cat sized with long bushy tails). This is a very reassuring thing when you are out at 22:00 with a flashlight patching sheep fence (two nights this week).

Around here, we are allowed to hunt with dogs and so coyote are chased all the time with dogs. I hear of a lot of other sheep farmers who have guard dogs where coyotes walk right up to the dogs unafraid and unfazed by them, yet with me, I have never had a sheep killed by one yet. I have to wonder if the coyotes know the sheep are around my domestic dogs and just leave them alone. I mean most of the time if a coyote sees a dog...he is being chased!

One time I was out working in my shop and I saw a coyote run past the doorway. My shop is 100 feet from my house so this was a little close. I ran out to chase the coyote away and was nearly run over by a pack of hounds that were chasing it. I yelled at the coyote, and instead a dog stopped. Not knowing what to do, I grabbed its collar and put the dog in my woodworking shop. Then I read the collar, called the guy up and he came right over. Of course the dog had GPS anyway so he would have found it. But the dog was a puppy and when I yelled, it distracted him from the hunt.

All in all though, as a sheep farmer I love the hounds despite people thinking they are mis treated. Nope, they are trained to do their natural instinct. And when it comes to dogs, the hunting dogs are the best trained, least nusience animals and won't bother the sheep. Aunt Edna's lap dog however, statistically gives sheep farmers more sheep kills then coyotes. Domestic dogs are a real concern for sheep farmers.

Last year on my farm they trapped 41 coyotes, and dog-hunted 31 for a total of 71 coyotes!

Travis,

I'd bet a cold brew that Maine has it's share of black bears.

Black bears as far as I know inhabit all of the lower 48 states.

There have been more people killed by black bear than grizzly bears. Reason? There are many times more black bears than grizzlys.

What animal has killed more humans in Yellowstone Park than the grizzly bear?.....Buffalo...... They will stampede and attack. And again....far greater number of buffalo in Yellowstone than grizzly. The animals one sees in Yellowstone are not tame.....are not trained....they are wild and they are just putting up with human presence. Don't get close unless you are willing to take a chance on being seriously injured or killed.

BTW Travis...I went and checked. Maine's black bear hunting season is from 8/31/2009-11/28/2009.

Travis,

I'll tell you a funny big cat story.

Years ago in Idaho 6 commissioners ran the Fish and Game Department. The commissioners were appointed by the governor of Idaho for a 6 year term. I have a friend who is a retired Marine Lt. Col. and he was appointed by then Gov. Cecil Andrus to 2 6 year terms.

He related this story to me about a local F&G officer. This officer worked and lived in a nearby ranching town. Another smaller community exists about 18 miles away. One day this officer got a call from an elderly widow lady in this smaller town. She proceeded to tell him that the last couple of nights she hadn't been sleeping well and was waking up several hours before dawn. While sitting in her kitchen she observed in the dark a large cat come up on her patio porch and eat out of her dogs bowl. "What should I do?" she asked. He advised her to tie her dog out there over night and it would run the cat off. The next day he received another call from her. She indicated she'd tied her dog out there the previous evening and when she awoke early this morning the dog was gone. "What kind of a dog do you have" he asked? "A toy poodle" she replied.

I ran into this F&G game officer about a year later on a perimeter road around a local wilderness area. As he pulled over on the 1 lane dirt road to let us pass, I asked him about the validity of the story. "That _______ is lying " he replied but I couldn't help notice he was extremely red faced when he said it.

Ken, I rechecked my post and I specifically said we did not have GRIZZLY BEARS. We do have BLACK BEARS, and they are evident where I live only because we can see how they roll in the corn about this time of year. It sucks because they can knock down a half acre of corn in a night, but a danger to humans...hardly. UNLESS PROVOKED, the black bears with their incredible smell, and ability to beat fast fast, will smell you a long ways off and run and hide.

In my 35 years here, I have seen 2 bears, once when we happened upon a bear in a berry patch when my dog and I was out hunting, and once when it crossed in front of us on a roadway while driving in a car, and you must consider I spend an enormous amount of time outside and in the woods. Even at night, there really is nothing to fear here in Maine, black bears included.

But don't feel alone, awhile back the paper had a story of numerous sitings of a bear in a nearby town. This "hunter" was shown in the paper taking pictures of it with his wildlife cameras and it was indeed a bear, but what he was quoted as saying was funny. "Now I always carry a gun with me to protect my family." That is silliness. A black bear here would no more bother a human who happened upon it, then a rabbit would...they would both scamper away in fear for themselves first. There is just too much open country right now for bears to be an issue. There is 8000 acres behind my house of undeveloped land in which to roam, and 7000 undeveloped acres in front of my house...they aren't going to mess with a few measly acres that have humans walking about. Most of the issues come when people saturate an area and wildlife have no place to go.

Ken Fitzgerald said:

It's funny how exposure to these kinds of predators in the wild will change your attitude about them.

When I first moved to Idaho and was beginning to elk hunt, all the locals carried bear tags. Bear was considered a predator then and they, like the cougar and the wolves have a significant impact on the elk calf population. More than once bears have been filmed at the edge of an elk herd where the cows are giving birth, and the bears like other opporturnistic predators attack and kill the newborn calves. That's nature. So most elk hunters carried bear tags. They shot and killed the bears they saw while elk hunting, tagged it and removed the lower jaw for submission to the F&G. I sometimes bought a bear tag but still haven't shot a bear and I've seen a couple while in the woods. Then the F&G made bears a game animal. If you shoot one, you have to dress it and bring the meat out just like any other game animal. Since then, they don't sell many bear tags and the bear population is on the increase....the elk population because of that and the reintroduced wolves in the State of Idaho...the elk population is suffering.

You can't imagine what it is like to cross your tracks in the snow ....the ones you made earlier in the day....and see bear tracks following your tracks for a hundred yards or so....the first time you have it happen....the hair on the back of your neck will stand on end!....You follow these (yours and its) tracks and eventually the animal wanders off. In this bear case, you realize it smelled your scent and was inquisitive. It followed your scent and tracks for a hundred yards or so and then went on its way.

In every case where I or one of my friends encountered predatory animals while hunting, you sensed it before you saw it. .......you get an eery feeling....then the hair on your neck stands on end....you stop moving and start looking and eventually you find it....spooky when it happens!

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well put ken!, but the big cats take there share as well and calves arent always the only item on the menu
travis the idea that black bears wont bother humans is somewhat true at times, but if yu happen to get between the sow and her cubs the idea changes fast.. and the humans feeding the bears is a major problem in the times in which they do attack humans and the garbage dumps are also a key thing to avoid the bears get accustomed to people there and will look friendly causing less intelegent humans to do things that are very foolish..

Travis,

I quote from your first statement " As for me, I am just glad there is no animal in Maine that will harm a human unless deliberately provoked."

According to what I've read about black bears it was stated that in the opinion of experts most attacks on humans by black bears are predatory attacks. In other words the black bears were stalking the humans. With grizzlys the same experts believe the attacks are primarily defensive in nature.

Another of the books I read on bear attacks specifically here in Idaho stated the same thing. Historically, more black bear attacks on humans than grizzly attacks and almost always predatory attacks. The black bears stalked and attacked the humans.

We have both grizzly and black bear in Idaho, though the number of grizzly is very small. It is believed by the biologists for the F&G that we are a grizzly corridor. The grizzly travel through Idaho while ranging from Canada down into Yellowstone. I know of one guy locally that was fly fishing on the headwaters of a local river and stumbled between a sow grizzly and her cub. He managed to back down the stream without incident. The headwaters of that river are in the area considered a "grizzly corridor".

Check out this link. I will tell you that according to my readings, this page is far from complete but it does show that black bear attacks are not that uncommon:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_decade


Here's some recent stories from newspapers:
http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/pdf/Bear_Attacks.pdf

Travis....not trying to argue the point here. But a lot of folks underestimate black bears...cougars....bison........they are wild animals and are not to be taken lightly.

I understand Ken and I am in the same boat. I am not arguing with you either. I know what you mean about Black bears, its just here the black bear attacks against humans are just not here statistically.

I mean if if you walk between a Cow moose and her calf you will get the same fate and as you know moose are pretty laid back. I'm equally sure that on a statistical basis, I have a better chance of walking out in the woods, finding an old hand dug well from a house built back in the 1830's and falling into it then getting mauled by a black bear. I've known of several people that have fallen into old wells, but I can not think of a single person that got mauled by a black bear, that's kind of how I look at this sort of thing.

And by provoked, I don't mean chucking rocks at a bear to make it growl. It can be as stupid as getting too close trying to take a picture of it, or leaving garbage around your house, or fishing near the fish laden streams when the bears come out of hibernation and are very hungary. To be its knowing their activities and then staying clear of them.

Now my next point anyone can argue with because its kind of out there if you will, but I think it has merit. I'm a farmer and really always have been. I think wildlife watches human activities and knows what is what. I go about my business and in doing so provide a lot of habitat and food for them. Since I am not a hunter, I don't think I am really a threat. I plant acres of corn bears like to roll in, I build roads and pools in streams that fish spawn in, and I make berry patches by harvesting wood. Overall I think wildlife is smarter then we give them credit for, as the saying goes, why bite the hand that feeds you?

Travis,

The experts feel you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being attacked by a bear.

I spent some time looking for a website yesterday. I couldn't find it again. The thing that shocked me was that most black bear attacks are considered to be predatory in nature. The black bear stalked the human looking at humans as a source of food.

There is a book that was written about bear attacks here in Idaho. In it, there was a woman working for the forest service that was attacked in an area where I elk hunted at one time. She and two other workers were scouting trees for future harvesting. They separated two in one group and she was by herself. I don't think she was killed but they felt the black bear had stalked her.

I guess experts feeling black bear attacks are generally predatory in nature is what surprises me.

But you are right, folks taking unnecessary risks invite those types of encounters.

Travis,

It's interesting that we've been having this discussion. I just came down from upstairs where on Headline News they were going to have an article on a California home that a black bear has been trying to break into every night this summer.

Now that's the difference between those folks and I. The first time that bear tried to come into my house. I would call the F&G and the city police.

The 2nd time I'd call the F&G and the city police.

The 3rd time I'd greet that bear with my 12 gauge shot gun loaded with slugs. End of story.

Ken Fitzgerald said:

folks taking unnecessary risks invite those types of encounters.

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Some years ago when we had a 300 head cow/calf operation we would lose a calf or two each year to black bears. Being young and in need of extra cash I saw a way to earn some money from this situation and I started "being a bear guide" which simply put was putting up baiting stations, seeing which ones were active then placing hunters at those stations to shoot one or more of our calf thieving bears.

I will never forget the first expierience of trying to track a wounded bear at night in the swamp....unarmed. The hairs on the back of your neck curl up at the least sound.

Next day I went out and bought the biggest handgun (Ruger Redhawk .44 magnum 7" stainless) I could for any encounter in the future. Wish I still had that handgun.

Steve,

I never go into the woods unarmed. While I don't own it anymore, my favorite woods gun in a shoulder holster was a S&W model 629 with a 6" barrel. I bought it used and it's former owner was a Idaho State Policeman. The state gunsmith had worked on this thing and it was incredibly accurate on 5 cylinders and the 6th cylinder had been marked as it didn't align quite like the other 5 did with the barrel. You know which one I carried empty and under the hammer when I was carrying it. The LOML called me "Dirty Kenny"....

Folks I think we got a new name for Mr. Fitzgerald.....

Dirty Kenny

I don''t go in the woods unarmed either....in fact I haven't been hunting in about 4 years. I took that ole buzzard from Delton to deer camp with me and he introduced me to Bud Light, the rifle never got out of the case the whole time we were there.

This year will be my first year back to deer hunting, I bet ole Bud Light comes along with me too.

Steve Ash said:

Folks I think we got a new name for Mr. Fitzgerald.....

Dirty Kenny

I don''t go in the woods unarmed either....in fact I haven't been hunting in about 4 years. I took that ole buzzard from Delton to deer camp with me and he introduced me to Bud Light, the rifle never got out of the case the whole time we were there.

This year will be my first year back to deer hunting, I bet ole Bud Light comes along with me too.

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It took that long to recover from a Larry induced hang over? I'm not sure I want to meet that guy!

We laugh at people who feel "they have to carry a fire arm". Not trying to sound mean, but here there is no need to be armed in Maine. Other then the Game Wardens, Police Officers and hunters, no one carries here. The USDA people don't, the forest rangers don't, the loggers don't, and certainly the farmers don't. The only ones that do are the nannies from out of state where the wildlife is different.

I don't even own a gun, pistol, rifle or otherwise. Part of it has to do with being a foster home, but to be honest there really is no sense to. When I need a gun, (like last night) I run up to the farm and grab one of from them. 99% of the time there is time to do that. Its not like I am going to get a shot off on a running coyote anyway or other situation like that. And the berserk ram...look what happened there...the ram died so the situation resolved itself in time.

I have said this a dozen times, there is no dangerous wildlife in Maine where I have to be armed 24/7 to protect myself in the woods. I don't even give it a thought when I am out mending fences at 10 pm at night and its pitch black out and I am holding a flashlight between my knees to see. I don't even give it a thought.

I am more in fear of other human beings then I am a black bear stalking me, and there again you are more likely to be killed by your own weapon then you are to to kill the perpetrator. You are grabbing your pistol out of your nightstand and groggy from sleep, and they are amped up on adrenaline and who knows what else...so they got the advantage there. And how many times has a homeowner pulled the trigger only to find out his safety was still on while the criminals was already off and tossing lead at the homeowner by the time he had it figured out why his gun wasn't making muzzle flashes. I've seen that on on TV a few times. No thanks. I'll talk my way out of it, be submissive, and then pay the guy back later.

Now don't get me wrong, we've had issues with hunters and 420 growers in the past, and I can tell you now, a match beats a gun any day. You burn their hunting cabins/trucks/tractors/barns down a few times, and they won't bother you again. You also get a reputation not to be messed with, and that sort of reputation tends to last for decades.

Travis,

I laugh at folks naive enough to think they don't need to defend themselves.....whether it's man or beast.

Had to run up the road to the farm when you needed a gun huh?

In 1970 while in the Navy attending school in Brunswick, GA, a man came into the apartment we were renting and tried to rape my wife while I was at school. It changed my whole attitude about using guns to defend myself or my property.

You want to try talking your way out....you want to be submissive ....have at it big guy!

I'll take my chances with Misseurs Smith and Wesson.

Ken Fitzgerald said:

Travis,

I laugh at folks naive enough to think they don't need to defend themselves.....whether it's man or beast.

Had to run up the road to the farm when you needed a gun huh?

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You only laugh ....I'd be on the floor bustin a gut.

Travis,

The incident I related to that happened to me in Georgia was truly a life altering experience for me.

I got drafted in August of '68. I quickly enlisted in the Navy. I really didn't think I was capable of killing another human. Then the 1970 incident happened. In December of '70 when I left that school and got transferred to NAS Meridian, MS....we rented a trailer house, unloaded the Uhaul and went to Illinois for the holidays on leave. When I returned I had a 16 gauge pump shotgun in the house for personal defense. Believe me when I tell you ....you come to my house with a match.....be ready I am armed.

I am not a member of the NRA. It's too radical a group for me. The last duty I had in the Navy was aboard a submarine tender in Charleston, SC. Because of my rank and security clearance I was placed on a special security team. We stored and repaired nuclear weapons aboard that ship. I qualified once a month with a M-14, a 45 and a 12 gauge riot gun. I have scored all the targets at a two day Idaho State Championship Rifle Benchrest match. I have called 2 Idaho State Pistol Silhouette Championships where I was the range officer. Did I mention I used to shoot rifle benchrest competition and pistol silhouette competition. I am/was a certified Idaho Hunter's Education Instructor. I hunted elk for nearly 20 years and have been carrying a gun in the field for over 50 years starting when I was 9 hunting with my father.

There are no accidents with a gun. Gun safety is no accident. There are people who are careless....there are people who are ignorant about the safe and proper way to handle a gun......there are no accidents. My father as a teen had a cousin "accidentally" shot and killed by another cousin while hunting... My father impressed upon me and my brother.....There is nothing more important than safety....nothing.


You want to be submissive. Have at it.....You want to try to talk your way out of something...Have at it.

Travis Johnson said:

...I am more in fear of other human beings then I am a black bear stalking me...

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As you should be.

Travis Johnson said:

...and there again you are more likely to be killed by your own weapon then you are to to kill the perpetrator...I've seen that on on TV a few times...

Click to expand...

Maybe more likely with the guys on TV, but this statement doesn't necessarily reflect some of us others who actually know how to use a gun.

Travis Johnson said:

...a match beats a gun any day...

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Um, no it doesn't. One is premeditated arson, the other is self-defense.

I don't know what this all has to do with a picture of a cougar that wasn't the picture of the cougar.

Maybe all the guns, shotguns and rifles have wood stocks?

This thread is turning into a topic that is best discussed in person.

Regards,

Dan G

Dan Gonzales said:

I don't know what this all has to do with a picture of a cougar that wasn't the picture of the cougar.

Maybe all the guns, shotguns and rifles have wood stocks?

This thread is turning into a topic that is best discussed in person.

Regards,

Dan G

Click to expand...

Oh no! Are we going to discuss Woodstock now? My grandkids wouldn't believe it anyway.