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How much to charge for canle pedistals

Rob....you make my head hurt :rofl:
You are way too deep and intelligent for me.

I have never sold anything I've made. Either I keep it or give it away. It would seem to me though that if I was to sell something I would do it on a commission basis. We would have an agreed upon price as well as a down payment for material cost. Kind of like Don is doing with his church project.
Since I don't do this for a living I would estimate the cost of materials and add what I thought was a fair profit. Maybe I would check the price of a similar product at real high end store and add 20% to that price for my hand made version. :dunno:
 
Stuart Ablett said:
I don't have much to add on the pricing part of the discussion, I think it has all been well said, but I would like to say something on the bidding or estimating part. A very wise man once told me

"I never lost any money on a job I did NOT get"

and that is also something you have to think about, if one does price oneself too low, you often would have been better off NOT taking the job.

Cheers!
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Rob Keeble said:
Wise words Stu. But there are some industries that do work at a break even not quiet loss just to keep ticking over. The issue is that break even is not understood and it does not mean just labor and material. Someone has to pay for the lights at a very simple level.

Then there are members here that sell things on the basis of putting things in a store on consignment. Thats all fine and Dandy but in a case like this I question the strategy.

Modern manufacturing and it dont matter how small the run is (in fact those that have experience working in a plant where the principles of JIT or Kanban were applied no,) apply the principle production quantity of one.

Its about the concept of mass customization. But even that has limits and constraints.

So the above logic therefore applies to all those woodworkers that will make even one unit.

Unless you know what the demand actually is your production of a unit for purposes of consignment is at best a display piece such as a mannequin and you best be ready to make more to customers spec. It therefore neccesitates that you carry a stock of or have access to( in a reasonable time) any multitudes of wood.

You therefore need to consider the constraints that need to be applied and discussed with the person providing the consignment service such that customer expectations are managed and you are not coerced into making something that you do not want to or do not have the ability to just to maintain the relationship with the store. Simply making it clear through signage that this item is available in Cherry, Oak or Whatever will suffice. But there is a ton more to this relationship with the store owner that is worth understanding.

If you then consider the economics of this case. You have a bunch of stuff completed in this manner and on display at various stores in the HOPE that someone buys it, you have a strategy that relies on hope.

The hope that someone comes along and wants whats on display. The hope that it sells for the price being asked. The hope that it is seen as custom woodworking when in fact you have relegated it to the level of competing with Ikea for it is not custom made. The hope that you will recover your investment in time, material and use of your facilities.

Sorry to say but hope is not a strategy for a business. I can take a lotto ticket and have as much luck as you.

As to your comment Larry as i have mentioned before I would be more than willing to contribute.:thumb:
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Rob, you misread my post :D

I said "I" not business in general, I know all about loss leaders and keeping the crew working just to retain the workers etc, but Dan is not asking about that, he is asking about pricing something that he made, one guy, and that is where my idea about sometimes NOT taking a job is better than taking the job and losing money on it. :thumb:

:wave:
 
When I started out doin g this for $$ I knew I could not demand the price that established ww could get as my business and rep has grown, I have been able to price tings differantly. Now I preety much know how much I can charge for a piece based on
1-expierance
2-knowledgec of the market
Now I can look at a piece and say that'll be $xxx and know that I'll make good money and give the client good value. If he chooses to not use me thats his choice and I move on. I have a list of potential client waiting for me to call them back so for now I can afford to be choosey. When I was starting out I didn't have that luxury.
I was trying to give hime some guid lines as to where he show start out and not loose money.
 
I believe its very difficult for someone to help price up a job for someone else.
What may take me 3 days to do, might take a seasoned pro 3 hours to do.
While I may waste 75 dollars worth of wood, someone who does this all the time understands this, and averages these things into a price.
Pricing has to be a very individual thing, when it comes to building custom stuff.
Putting up siding, well, I guess theres a price per sq foot people will pay, and most contractors go by the area and market price, since the next contractor with the same rep may do it for a few dollars less, you have to be somewhat competitive in that area.
But custom pieces, you pay for things like experience, talent, and quality of work that is usually gained through recognition of previous work, or recos from previous clients.
Noone is knocking on my door asking me for custom furniture.
Not too suprising.
 
I like Rob's approach. It is logical and makes sense to me.
His summation also says it all.
The buyer sets the price. If an item won't sell, the seller reduces the marked price until a buyer lays out the money and that becomes it's value and price.
Who your potential market is determines selling price.
A good example for me right now is a pen I made. I showed it here. It is a high-end Emperor model in alternate/faux ivory. It is now in a high-end art gallery gift shop priced under $200.00. That is the mark-up price over what I want from it's sale.
A while back a fellow in Nevada made a similar pen. He sold it to a gift shop in LasVegas for $300.00. The same day, that gift shop retail sold it for $3,000.00.
After several months, mine hasn't sold for under $200.00.
So, wats it worth?
FWIW, my formula for pen mark-up is: cost of materials X2 + $10.00 = price. If I cut my own wood, I give a minimum value of $5.00 for the blank. The $10.00 is a number I picked arbitrarily to (hopefully) cover shop costs and wear on equipment.
 
Heres what happened:D

There was no price discussed ahead of time, but when asked to make these I was told to keep track of the expense's since the church would be paying for them. I thought about donating but I do not do itemized deductions on taxes at this point.

I decided to go with the $25 per hour labor rate or around there. I know it took me a bit more than 10 hours but that was close enough. So I asked for $400 total.

He was thrilled and thought that was a very reasonable price:)

I am ecstatic that I sold my first work for a profit :thumb: I feel I helped a friend of my sons :thumb: I am proud of my results:headbang:

I have made pieces for people before but that have either been for gifts or for cost. I am not ready to do this for a living :rofl:

Thanks for everyone's help.

Dan
 
larry merlau said:
here is another post or thread that would give merit to the idea of a business approach area..there are many of us here that try in one form or another to make few dollars to offset our expenses and the pros here sometimes could benefit from a business mans perspective on these matters..us worker bees dont usually have the savy that we should have to make our efforts more saleable.
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+1
Excellent Idea!:thumb:
 
When it comes to pricing I think of a mechanics shop with an $85hr shop rate. I have the training and the certificates on the wall and tools and a skill that most others don't have. Why should It be any different for my pricing. I have building costs and insurance costs, accounting costs, hydro, wear and tear on tools (and they are not cheap to purchase and replace), how much is a good saw blade worth and how often do you have it re-sharpened? Who pays for that? Then there is workers insurance and when you start thinking of an hourly rate and what you are worth? Then I have to submit income taxes as well as other tax's that I am responsible for collecting and submitting. It all adds up. Hand crafted works are not cheap for that very reason. I was just out today looking at the cost of hard woods and the prices are going through the roof with the limited supplies. The pricing is not what it was even 5 yrs ago and people don't understand that. These all add to the cost. I may have extra stuff around the shop to use but that all has to be replaced so that i can build more stuff. Free or not it still has to be replaced. When was the last time you went to a mechanic and he gave you a good deal on the work that he does? Never under sell yourself as it just hurts those of us that do try to do this work for a living. It is bad enough the big box store do it with stuff shipped in from china where workers work for $10.00 a week or something ridiculous like that. Sorry for ranting but it is something I feel very strongly about.
 
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