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larry merlau

larry merlau

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Delton, Michigan
i was talking with some friends this week and a question was brought up, i did have some to do with it but i had others input as well so i am not writing this for my notirighty just voicing a question? back when i first looked at the forum world, i stoped in to one and asked a question and got absolty no response for over two weeks ,,dropped into anopther asked same question got answer within a day. said to myself this is where i need to visit and learn then it got bigger and bigger and now its not the same as it was then in no way no how, still drop in to check on the latest but have since found a new one to learn and contribuite to.. but my question is is this the eveltution process they get bigger and then become unfreindl;y and unwilling to answr? is there a cure for this disease or can we take somehting for it so it doesnt happern here?:huh:
 
Larry

I HOPE that as we grow we can continue to keep the friendly environment we have created so far. But I think that this depends on all of us maintaining a civil tone when we have the inevitable differences of opinions. I think that if we differ with a point of view, we should keep our comments directed to the opinion, not the person who expressed it.

Personally I think the "founding 10" (do I have the number correct?) have done a great job setting us on a positive path. It is up to us to follow that example and to "gently" remind each other "to behave" if a specific thread gets hostile.

At SMC I read some posts that got crazy and didn't do anything about it. When I joined here I resolved that I will speak up, first in a PM and if that doesn't work then in the thread and to the moderators if I think that someone is being, for lack of a better term, a jerk. I value differences in opinion, but I don't respect someone who gets off on putting others down. So far, we've done real well here; I am sure we all want this to be a better kind of forum and will pull together to reach that goal.

Thanks for your post, it is good to be looking a bit down the road to avoid an unseen pothole.

Jay
 
It is going to be real interesting to see what happens here. This is the first foum that I have watched from almost the beginning. I don't know if it is possible to control when it reaches a certain size or not. I guess that if it is possible this bunch will be able to do it.
 
I've watched a lot of discussion boards go through their entire life cycles, and yes, many of those fell apart for various reasons. But until now, I had never seen a discussion group start out with the mission to be civilized. That aspect of group organization is usually not given much thought on startup. But since that is one of our clearly stated goals, we have the advantage of being more vigilant over what kinds of behavior will be acceptable. If any group can keep it within those bounds, it would be us.

Cheers,

Kevin
 
as one of the original dirty dozen (give or take a few) all I know is that we tried to start something that was an open and free woodworking forum run by the members. We have tried to lay out a foundation that the members can build upon. Unlike other forums this one is run by the members and since we have such a diverse group that is scattered geographically so I doubt that there will ever be a group that will be able to totally dominate the mindset of the forum. At least I hope not. Soon we will be having elections as to who will take over running this forum. It will be up to the members to determine who will continue to set the direction of this forum.
There are a few things left to be done to done before this can take place and I can tell you that we are working behind the scenes to make this happen. I can only hope that as the membership grows we will see that the folks who run this things continue in the spirit that was shown by the "founding fathers".
 
Jay Knoll said:
Larry

I HOPE that as we grow we can continue to keep the friendly environment we have created so far. But I think that this depends on all of us maintaining a civil tone when we have the inevitable differences of opinions. I think that if we differ with a point of view, we should keep our comments directed to the opinion, not the person who expressed it.

Personally I think the "founding 10" (do I have the number correct?) have done a great job setting us on a positive path. It is up to us to follow that example and to "gently" remind each other "to behave" if a specific thread gets hostile.

At SMC I read some posts that got crazy and didn't do anything about it. When I joined here I resolved that I will speak up, first in a PM and if that doesn't work then in the thread and to the moderators if I think that someone is being, for lack of a better term, a jerk. I value differences in opinion, but I don't respect someone who gets off on putting others down. So far, we've done real well here; I am sure we all want this to be a better kind of forum and will pull together to reach that goal.

Thanks for your post, it is good to be looking a bit down the road to avoid an unseen pothole.

Jay
Click to expand...

It'll be interesting to see how things go, Jay. I have also turned a blind eye to to bullying in other places. It's very difficult to tell an adult that he's behaving like a spoiled kid.

There is a pecking order wherever you go. It's either the "we were here first" crowd or the "I have 10,000 posts and a crew of toadies to back me up". They can be intimidating to deal with, especially since they stick to the letter, if not the spirit of the law. Actually, I can think of other 'types' as well - we've all seen them.

It's all about egos, unfortunately and everybody has one. I think the best we can do is try to set a good example as we grow. If we remember to park our own egos at the door we might send a message to newcomers to keep it friendly and nice.

I don't see anything wrong with sending someone a message to ask him to "cool it". I can't see myself doing it, but if it's handled well it could be very effective.

I'd like to see whether the mods think this would be desirable or if they would rather see things "go through channels".
 
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Ian Gillis said:
I don't see anything wrong with someone a message to ask him to "cool it". I can't see myself doing it, but if it's handled well it could be very effective.

I'd like to see whether the mods think this would be desirable or if they would rather see things "go through channels".
Click to expand...
Ian,
I for one think that the members can be the best mods, but what the heck it's easy for me to say since I am only a temp mod until "you guys find someone better or until I'm dead", which ever comes first. (to paraphrase a movie).
 
Jay Knoll said:
Larry

I HOPE that as we grow we can continue to keep the friendly environment we have created so far. But I think that this depends on all of us maintaining a civil tone when we have the inevitable differences of opinions. I think that if we differ with a point of view, we should keep our comments directed to the opinion, not the person who expressed it.

Personally I think the "founding 10" (do I have the number correct?) have done a great job setting us on a positive path. It is up to us to follow that example and to "gently" remind each other "to behave" if a specific thread gets hostile.

At SMC I read some posts that got crazy and didn't do anything about it. When I joined here I resolved that I will speak up, first in a PM and if that doesn't work then in the thread and to the moderators if I think that someone is being, for lack of a better term, a jerk. I value differences in opinion, but I don't respect someone who gets off on putting others down. So far, we've done real well here; I am sure we all want this to be a better kind of forum and will pull together to reach that goal.

Thanks for your post, it is good to be looking a bit down the road to avoid an unseen pothole.

Jay
Click to expand...

Here here. I fully agree with you Jay :thumb:
 
I really think there is an evolutionary cycle for forums. At their peak, most of them have a core group of long-time regulars, another chunk of "regulars-in-waiting" who haven't been there that long but might go the distance, and the rest are newbies and drive-bys (purely descriptive, no offense intended).

If there isn't enough circulation into the core group, it can get inbred: that middle group shrinks and all you have left is newbies and old-timers. Eventually it can get to the point where most of the posts are newbies asking "old" questions that the old-timers have already heard and thrashed out once too often, so the newbie gets ignored (or abused), there's no new blood coming in, and the whole thing starts circling the drain.

Size matters too: a certain critical mass is necessary for survival, but if a forum gets too big, that inner core just tends to huddle together closer, which accelerates the process.

What? You thought that, just because it's "online", the normal social dynamics don't apply? :rolleyes:
 
boards are boards and folks are folks........if we stick to pretty much talkin` about boards instead of folks things should be fine......remember this from a fellow who gets along with kids, dogs and boards but not so well with adults;)
 
Lee DeRaud said:
I really think there is an evolutionary cycle for forums. At their peak, most of them have a core group of long-time regulars, another chunk of "regulars-in-waiting" who haven't been there that long but might go the distance, and the rest are newbies and drive-bys (purely descriptive, no offense intended).

If there isn't enough circulation into the core group, it can get inbred: that middle group shrinks and all you have left is newbies and old-timers. Eventually it can get to the point where most of the posts are newbies asking "old" questions that the old-timers have already heard and thrashed out once too often, so the newbie gets ignored (or abused), there's no new blood coming in, and the whole thing starts circling the drain.

Size matters too: a certain critical mass is necessary for survival, but if a forum gets too big, that inner core just tends to huddle together closer, which accelerates the process.

What? You thought that, just because it's "online", the normal social dynamics don't apply? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well Larry, it seems that Lee pretty much put in print what I said to you this past weekend.....all that I would add to Lee's statement is that if you don't have people posting (even if it is sometimes trivial posts like my bantering with you or Jim Young) there is nothing to hold interests (not saying it is) and people move on....I'm not saying that a person should post to every single post that is out there just to get your post count up ....but if you have something to add, do so.....even if you are a one fingered typer, there isn't a time limit you need to conform to on a forum.

Well said Lee :thumb:
 
tod evans said:
boards are boards and folks are folks........if we stick to pretty much talkin` about boards instead of folks things should be fine......remember this from a fellow who gets along with kids, dogs and boards but not so well with adults;)
Click to expand...

so lets se here does this mean i am a kid or dog or a board? or heaven forbid and adult?:D
 
My two cents. Members make the forum. If left alone it can/will turn into a mob mentality. If members step up when something happens it sets the tone fore everyone else. It's just like sheep, most people follow the leader. The leaders don't have to be moderators either! Members can be leaders.
 
larry merlau said:
so lets se here does this mean i am a kid or dog or a board? or heaven forbid and adult?:D
Click to expand...

well larry......you`ve got the enthusiam of a kid.....the loyality of an ol` dog.....are hard headed as a piece of knotty hickory and haven`t shown any signs of growin` up........so where`s that leave ya`?;)
 
well.HUH

tod evans said:
well larry......you`ve got the enthusiam of a kid.....the loyality of an ol` dog.....are hard headed as a piece of knotty hickory and haven`t shown any signs of growin` up........so where`s that leave ya`?;)
Click to expand...

its drn good ya sad it wida smile or i wooda tok affense to it. dint relize i was so irradesent or twas that transprnt?:rofl:
 
Lee DeRaud said:
Eventually it can get to the point where most of the posts are newbies asking "old" questions that the old-timers have already heard and thrashed out once too often, so the newbie gets ignored (or abused), there's no new blood coming in, and the whole thing starts circling the drain.

Size matters too: a certain critical mass is necessary for survival, but if a forum gets too big, that inner core just tends to huddle together closer, which accelerates the process.
Click to expand...

Very insightful post, Lee. I'm zeroing in on one part of it as something we might do something about. When seeing the stream of noobs who pop up in other forums (never here ;) )asking the "stock" newbie questions, I've often thought it would be nice to have a good FAQ to refer them to. In light of the fact that some of these questions provoke different responses from different members (let's say "vintage Stanley v Lie Nielsen, for example), we might never be able to distill it down to one response. We could, however, agree to represent more than one point of view in the FAQ.

Then instead of the newbie getting passed off onto Cian's List (or being told to use the bleeping search engine) we could provide some well thought out responses. A side benefit is that we wouldn't all have to weigh in on each of these contentious questions each time they come up. The fewer unecessary and repetitive debates the better, as I see it. And the newbies would likely feel better too, feeling we had made a real attempt to answer their questions here at FW.

Gotta go start my day - later ppl
 
There is an evolutionary process with forums. A forum I used to belong to deals with historically correct old-style muzzle loading firearms. It had many members and interesting discussions for quite a few years. Then questions and topics started repeating themselves and many new members started asking questions they could have answered by looking in the archives or doing a little work for themselves. It got dull and faded away. That could happen here but due to the nature of woodworking/turning and it's many permutations, I don't see a risk of that happening for a long-long time, if ever. One of the features here, and at SMC, that I, at first, objected to is the requirement of real names. I now see that as a positive thing. Real names deny anonymity to the poster and keeps away the nut cases. I know one who isn't here just for that reason. And his absence is something we can all be happy about. Bottom line, IMHO, we are OK and will be for a long stretch down the road.
 
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