Constrained expansion: What happens if I put wood in the end of a steel tube?

I haven't used behringers before, in the "pro" audio world behringer is on the low end of the food chain, for home stuff though it should be fine. I don't know how familiar you are with this stuff but let me know if I can help.:)

I've done quite a bit of research and have a little experience, and I know a few other enthusiasts who have a lot of experience with this particular crossover. While not as well made as its' more expensive alternatives, the DCX2496 is surprisingly good - if you bypass the crappy line drivers, it has signal-to-noise performance that's almost unmatched.
 
"""While not as well made as its' more expensive alternatives, the DCX2496 is surprisingly good """
I wasn't saying that they are junk or anything, just that my experience with DSPs are in the pro audio world where Behringer isn't used as much as some of the other brands. Behringer seems to be quite popular for home theater applications.
Sounds like a fun project, speakers are always fun to build. I built a 12" home theater sub a year a go, I used a plate amp from my old HT sub which the driver crapped out on. Its only 100 watts but it shakes the house. If I remember right it will do 105dB at 20 hz.

"""Actually, I quite like the look of steel - it's all the exposed MDF bits where you cut through the veneer for the woofer and tweeter recess that don't look so good."""

Were you going to mount the speaker frames inside the box?
 

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That steel tube should make an excellent enclosure. With the walls being 1/4" thick, you won't have to worry about them vibrating.

Instead of finishing the mdf, why not recess the speaker plate and use a screen to cover everything?
 
I wasn't saying that they are junk or anything, just that my experience with DSPs are in the pro audio world where Behringer isn't used as much as some of the other brands.

My experience with a lot of Behringer products is perhaps worse than yours - quite a lot of their stuff has an incredible failure rate. Also, all of the digital filters on their mixers aren't very good. However, they seem to have got the DCX2496 right. :)
The big advantage of the DCX2496 is the digital input. While not terribly useful in a pro environment, sending a digital output straight from my PC to the crossover means the signal is not repeatedly converted from digital to analog and back again before being processed, which helps keep down distortion. It also means I can use a really cheap soundcard. :)

Sounds like a fun project, speakers are always fun to build. I built a 12" home theater sub a year a go, I used a plate amp from my old HT sub which the driver crapped out on. Its only 100 watts but it shakes the house. If I remember right it will do 105dB at 20 hz.

Nice! What driver did you use?

Subwoofers are a terrific DIY project because they're so simple - so long as the box has the correct volume and the port is of the correct size, there's not much to go wrong. They're also a tremendous value - as you have no doubt noticed, you get a whole lot more for your money, and the greater structural integrity of a homemade box can translate into audible benefits.

"

"""Actually, I quite like the look of steel - it's all the exposed MDF bits where you cut through the veneer for the woofer and tweeter recess that don't look so good."""

Were you going to mount the speaker frames inside the box?

Most speakers have a recess for the frame of the drivers so that they mount flush against the baffle. Any irregularities in the baffle (such as having the woofer and tweeter stick out from the front) can produce measurable and audible differences in output. Also, it just looks better. :)

You can see what I'm going on about here:


The picture is from a rather good documentation of the build of the Modula MT, a very popular DIY design.

Instead of finishing the mdf, why not recess the speaker plate and use a screen to cover everything?

I would, except that it can cause some issues at high frequencies. I'm currently working on a little iPod boom box which is going to be built up in the style of a vintage guitar amp - not only will it look spiffy, but wrapping it in Tolex and tweed is a great way to cover up my woodworking mistakes!
 
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"""The big advantage of the DCX2496 is the digital input. While not terribly useful in a pro environment, sending a digital output straight from my PC to the crossover means the signal is not repeatedly converted from digital to analog and back again before being processed."""

That is a definite advantage.


"""Nice! What driver did you use?"""

I used a dayton Titanic mkIII 12" Subwoofer. The plate amp was from a Polk 10" sub


"""Most speakers have a recess for the frame of the drivers so that they mount flush against the baffle. Any irregularities in the baffle (such as having the woofer and tweeter stick out from the front) can produce measurable and audible differences in output. Also, it just looks better. :)"""

I agree, I was just confused by the wording. Here is the way I did mine. I built a complete MDF box, the driver frame mounted on the face of the MDF and then there was a layer of 3/4" solid walnut glued on the MDF. This essentially created a 1.5" thick baffle and the way its built the driver is recessed into the baffle Its like veneering the MDF except that the veneer is 3/4" thick. Also the thickness of the walnut was figured into the length of the ports.
 

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Nice work on your sub!

I've been told that laminating hardwoods and MDF is a bad idea due to the different ratios of expansion - one would apparently cause the other to break. How did you solve this problem?
 
I glued and clamped it as well as screwing it from the inside. I built it in Jan of 09 and it has been fine ever since. The walnut wasn't even kiln dried, it was just air dried. I suppose that it may depend on the species of wood used, I have had things I made of white oak shrink a lot but everything made of walnut seems to remain perfect and not move at all:huh:
 
I hadn't considered that - it's definitely a major issue. How would you suggest I go about this?

Joesph

On one of Stus's Builds he showed how he learned to square up angle iron metal. He used a 4 1/2 inch grinder and ground back to marked lines. Maybe some one remembers the build. The same method would work easily with this. Blue it and scribe lines that arre square and true. Then just hand grind back to the lines..
Garry
 
What about acoustics? Won't steel color the sound differently than wood?

Usually the idea is to not color the sound at all. With the steel being 1/4" thick and the box being relatively small there shouldn't be a huge problem with the steel vibrating. There may be a need for something inside it to keep the steel from ringing. :dunno:
 
Usually the idea is to not color the sound at all. With the steel being 1/4" thick and the box being relatively small there shouldn't be a huge problem with the steel vibrating. There may be a need for something inside it to keep the steel from ringing. :dunno:

There's actually a variety of products intended for cars that do exactly this - Dynamat, for example. The net result should be acoustically very dead.
 
Josef,
I have built a pair of Seas Thor speakers (www.seas.no) and I am currently building 3 Odin-MK3 and 2 Froy-MK3 speakers for a surround sound system. Here's my advice: 1) lose the metal frame. No matter what you do it will cause warping. I have built metal frames with wood backing for art pieces. When the temp rises, the frame warps. 2) Bloodwood (aka Satine wood) is very stable. http://tropix.cirad.fr/index_gb.htm has the data sheet on this species under African woods. I used Bubinga veneer with a Pommelle pattern and solid 1/2" x 1/2" Bubinga edging on my Thor speakers and have had no expansion problems over the last 5 years. Compare the specs of Satine wood against Bubinga. They are very similar. 3) MDF is your best substrate for speaker building. It is plenty dense. Machines like butter and is perfectly flat which is great for veneering. 4) How you build your box determines how you veneer. If you veneer the panels first, then you must use a backing veneer (can be anything -- beech, poplar, etc.) on the opposing face to avoid warping as the glue dries. If you build the box first, there is no need for a backing veneer. However, you are limited in the types of veneer you can apply (more on this below). Unprocessed veneer requires a lot of clamping pressure. This is why you can only use it on flat panels before assembly. Because of glue squeeze out the panels should be oversized and cut down to size. Raw veneer may also need to be flattened and requires some acquired skill and special tools to work with (http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm , http://www.schurchwoodwork.com/tools/index.html , http://www.veneersystems.com). A good source for raw veneer is http://www.wood-veneers.com/ . This has a long learning curve filled with frustration until you master it. So if it seems overwhelming, just go to "manufactured" veneer. It has a backing (paper, resin, another wood) to make it flat and stable. It comes in pre-spliced sheets up to 4'x8'). Some are prefinished. http://www.treefrogveneer.com/ is one such source. Their sister company, Chemetal, http://www.treefrogveneer.com/chemetal.htm sells metal veneers. This may be a better alternative to achieve the same look as your metal frame. For trimming metal veneers, use a spiral cut bit http://www.amanatool.com/invectra/. 5) Glue: with manufactured veneer you can use spray adhesive. I avoid it like the plague with raw veneer because it leaves a rubber glue line and shrinks (joint creep between seams). However, if you use manufactured veneer you can have one full size piece per side and then there is no joint (except at the edge). After gluing a side, wait a few days for the glue to dry, then trim it with the router. Joint creep at the edges will be reduced. In your case, your veneer is 1/4" thick so this may not be an issue (as it would be 1/28" thick veneer). Yellow glue with clamping is good too. Cover all sides with paper for the squeeze out. Use two 3/4" pieces of MDF as cawls (clamping platens) on each side of the speaker (veneer side/opposing side). Gorrilla Grip polyurethane glue is great but required a lot of clamping pressure. Spread a very thin layer with a 4" plaster spreader on just the box. You must position and clamp your veneer withing 10-15 min so be ready to go. If you go the thin raw veneer route, you will find yourself dealing with time sensitive catalyzed glues and vacuum bag presses.
My last bit of advice is to test everything before you try it on your speakers.
So this is my brain dump at this late hour. I hope it helps.
Steve
 
I though you might like to see the Thor speakers.
Dimiension: ~45"x9.5"x14".
Crossover is in box on the back so not to impede transmission through interior baffle.
Base and rear handle protrude to protect cross-over box. Skateboard wheels on back of base to make it easier to move.
Grill cloth used was from http://www.speakerworks.com/speaker_grill_cloth_fabric_s/25.htm . It is completely transparent.
I used a glue gun to attach it to 1/4" MDF.
The grill is longer than the component area because I wanted the exposed wood portion on the front to be a Golden Rectangle.
I was rushed when I built the base and do not like the proportions. In partcular, I don't like the conical spikes. My plan is to redesign this as shown in the PDFs. I plan on making the new base out of bloodwood and ebony.
Steve
 

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Thank you. Working on five nore. Same species of wood, different tree. I can post some work in process pics if anyone is interested.
Steve
 
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