You decide....did the countertop installers screw me up or not.......

Mark Rios

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Central CA
I have a kitchen remodel that I am in the middle of. The maple cabinets are installed and they are sanded and (were) ready for finishing, but they are yet raw wood.

Today, the countertop installers installed the full height backsplash. The bottom of the upper cabinets meet the backsplash at six places. The installers caulked the gaps between the backsplash and the wall, including the joint between the backsplash and the cabinets in those six places. At five of those junctions, they wiped/smeared the clear caulk on the raw wood maple plywood. The spots range in size from 3/4" x 1" to 1" x 1 1/2".

I believe/assume the caulk is a latex product but I don't really know exactly.

How can I remove the caulk and will I be able to remove it completely so that it doesn't affect the finish?

I will need to back charge the installers for the needed repairs (to this issue and for the dings that the guy who did the template put in the faceframes). Any idea on a charge for this repair to these five areas?

Thanks very much for your help, suggestions and advice.
 
The bottom of the upper cabinets meet the backsplash at six places. The installers caulked the gaps between the backsplash and the wall, including the joint between the backsplash and the cabinets in those six places. At five of those junctions, they wiped/smeared the clear caulk on the raw wood maple plywood. The spots range in size from 3/4" x 1" to 1" x 1 1/2".

I believe/assume the caulk is a latex product but I don't really know exactly.

How can I remove the caulk and will I be able to remove it completely so that it doesn't affect the finish?

I will need to back charge the installers for the needed repairs (to this issue and for the dings that the guy who did the template put in the faceframes). Any idea on a charge for this repair to these five areas?

Thanks very much for your help, suggestions and advice.

What ever you get it won't be enough..:(
 
I don't understand wht they sealed it UNDER the upper cabinets :huh:
What was the purpose of that?
 
Steve....if they installed solid surface counter tops often...the sealant/caulk is what attaches it to the cabinets.

Yes. On the counter top itself. But under the upper cabinets?
You can't see under there unless you have 12" legs
 
I don't know a lot about this other than my Dad building, finishing & installing custom cabinets. So I need to ask a question.

Why wern't the cabinets finished before installation?


The painter that I usually have stain/finish my cabinets needed to go out of state to take care of his mother. The customer originally wanted a stained finish. I didn't feel that I'm good enough to finish them (maple....odd color stain....blotchiness....etc....) so I was trying to find another painter to do them. Then, the customer changed their minds and decided to go with just an oil finish with a clear topcoat. Okay, great....I just MIGHT be able to do that type of finish successfully. However, I'm still working on making new doors for the three 45 degree corner cabinets (they want glass in them now, complete with grids, instead of inset panel like the rest of the doors), the other parts of the kitchen remodel like the plumbing and reinforcing the floor for the tile, and other parts of the job like hardwood floor prep throughout and painting four rooms and 38 feet of hallway.

Stuff like that. :D

I'm still trying to find a painter...................


Any ideas on how to take care of the caulk problem?


Thanks very much.
 
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Its probably silicone. Yer in for some serious sanding
 
Yes. On the counter top itself. But under the upper cabinets?
You can't see under there unless you have 12" legs

So....do you have something against short people Steve?:dunno:

Yeah........It sounds like the bottom of the upper cabinets meet the backsplash in 6 different places and the installers caulked where they meet....? I didn't catch that the first time..........as they say....Quien Sabe?
 
Mark, I don't have a good solution for you. I hope for your sake it isn't silicon! Scraper and sandpaper would be the direction I'd look. Good luck!
 
Yes. On the counter top itself. But under the upper cabinets?
You can't see under there unless you have 12" legs



Yeah...I didn't even mention that part. They did caulk under the upper cabinets also. This is a u-shaped kitchen and I stopped them before they caulked the third side. They weren't even very careful on the underneath part. It loks pretty bad, to me anyway.

But I don't think I was clear enough, sorry.

The points where the cabs meet the backsplash that I'm referring to are where the upper cabinets would end and you have a finish panel side i.e., under the microwave above the range (2), on either side of the sink (2), and at the end of the run of upper cabs on the right side which faces out into the dining area (1). These cabinet sides are the sides that are normally exposed. The remaining exposed/finished cabinet side, number six, is at the refer opening. But that was the only side that I caught in time before they caulked it. :rolleyes:
 
BTW...as far as it being silicone or not.....it's a caulk that goes on white but dries clear. Isn't that a latex product? (I HOPE, I HOPE!!!)
 
BTW...as far as it being silicone or not.....it's a caulk that goes on white but dries clear. Isn't that a latex product? (I HOPE, I HOPE!!!)
I believe you're correct. The clear silicone caulks I've used came out of the tube clear, and I believe the ones I've used that came out white and turned clear were acrylic. I've been wrong before, though, so I'd like someone else to confirm that.

Is there a way you can trim the caulk off the wood with a chisel? Being the spots only range up to 1" x 1 1/2", it seems like a good sharp chisel might be able to shave a gossamer wisp of wood off the underside of the cabinet in the affected spots.
 
sounds like clear phenoseal...cleans up with water until cured. You should let it cure and you may be able to pull it out in pieces...then a little scraping and sanding.

Or you could talk them into a nice natural finish :D
 
I agree. It most likely is pure silicone or has silicone in it. You are going to have fun. I don't know if it works on this, but you may want to start with some shellac.

They screwed you IMO.
 
Mark, they do make a paintable silicone also. Insted of guessing or trying to fuigar out what it is call the installers and find out what it is they use. As far as chargeing.......:dunno:
Reg
 
Mark, they do make a paintable silicone also. Insted of guessing or trying to fuigar out what it is call the installers and find out what it is they use. As far as chargeing.......:dunno:
Reg

That was my first thought also.... I have a friend who has a Solid Surface company. I'm sure he (as well as your installer) would help in any way possible, to solve your dilemma, if you approach him correctly. I would not jump in to accuse or demand payment for your time as he will probably tell you to take a hike, but should you simply ask for some help with the matter, then he may assist you. If not completely satisfied then monetary remittance can be discussed later. Remember, it is not the installers fought that the cabinets were not ready when he was scheduled to install. Albeit he should have checked before sealing. BUT remember, just as much as you want to be compensated for your extra efforts, he will face additional expenses with any repair efforts on his part. You will need to work together in an effort to solve this problem. You may have to eat the effort expense due to YOU'RE not being prepared or completed when the install was scheduled. Easiest (hindsight) solution would have been to delay the install.

At least that is my slant on your situation.

Try Alcohol!
 
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Mark, I’d be inclined to do a little experimenting. Call the installers and find out exactly what they used and then duplicate what he did on some scrap maple. I’ve had good luck cleaning up regular borg silicone caulk with acetone and a soft brush followed by light sanding.

Edit: I wanted to add that I have never tried to apply a “finish” after cleaning up silicone caulk, but I have had good results with paint.
 
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That was my first thought also.... I have a friend who has a Solid Surface company. I'm sure he (as well as your installer) would help in any way possible, to solve your dilemma, if you approach him correctly. I would not jump in to accuse or demand payment for your time as he will probably tell you to take a hike, but should you simply ask for some help with the matter, then he may assist you. If not completely satisfied then monetary remittance can be discussed later. Remember, it is not the installers fought that the cabinets were not ready when he was scheduled to install. Albeit he should have checked before sealing. BUT remember, just as much as you want to be compensated for your extra efforts, he will face additional expenses with any repair efforts on his part. You will need to work together in an effort to solve this problem. You may have to eat the effort expense due to YOU'RE not being prepared or completed when the install was scheduled. Easiest (hindsight) solution would have been to delay the install.

At least that is my slant on your situation.

Try Alcohol!

Well Bill, we must have different views on personal responsiblity. Can you tell me the code number or what rule or law there is that says that the cabs HAVE to be finished before the counters go on? It may be a better idea (and it most assuredly is so) but, in the rare cases that it comes up, why does the cabinets not being finished remove any responsibility from the installer for doing sloppy work? If I go into your house to do some work and damage something, aren't I responsible for it? Also, if the installer had any problem installing around the unfinished wood, he could have always said that he would come back when the cabs were finished. He was simply not conscientious in doing his work. His lack of conscientiousness is not my fault. He could have simply even masked the cabs off before applying the caulk.

I judge my level of work and professionalism by how well I am at getting the job done within the parameters and conditions of each particular job, not by how fast I can get a job done by just doing it the exact same way every time and not being aware of any abnormal and unusual circumstances. If an unusual situation comes up, it's my responsiblility to adapt to it.

Let me ask this...am I responsible for the dings in the face frame edges that the template guy made while templating? Or how about when he let his hot glue gun drip into the bottoms of two of cabinets (and down the faceframes of two more) and when, at the end of the job, he tried to pick the glue off and he pulled up a chunk of the first layer of plywood?

Back-charge may not be anyones favorite word but it is still necessary when someone is careless and damages something.

And that is my slant on the situation. And as far as trying alcohol....I don't drink. :D (I know, I know, denatured alcohol.)


Here's the biggest spot.......

cabglue 2.jpg

And here's the smallest spot.....

cabglue 1.jpg

Notice in this pic that the installer didn't even pull the tape off of the window before installing the window jamb piece (on either side). :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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