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Thread: integrity dilemma

  1. #1
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    integrity dilemma

    I'm going to pose a situation and hope it generates some good feedback.
    Recently on the Digital Photography Review forum a/k/a DPR there was considerable discussion about a well-known photo contest in the U.K. It seems there was a category for wild animals. The rules specified the animal pictured must not be captive. The winning entry was a wolf jumping over a fence. Other entrants complained claiming the wolf shown was a trained animal and the picture a set-up. After much investigation the judges finally disqualified the picture and photographer even though he staunchly claimed the picture met the rules.
    Now, in our case, suppose we have a contest. Lets say for turned bowls. A winner is picked for #1. Later, another entrant complains saying the winner really bought the bowl at a show. But the winner says he turned it.
    What to do?
    My take. The final product, picture or bowl should stand on it's own. There is, and was, virtually no way to prove the wolf was, or was not, captive. Besides, what is 'captive'? Does it live in a cage? Or an enclosed five acre grounds? Or, maybe it lives on a 10,000, completely fenced game ranch. Is that 'enclosed'?
    Or, who is to say who made the bowl?
    "Folks is funny critters."

    Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too. ~Voltaire

  2. #2
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    this is one real good reason for not making competition on here as a common occurrence, and in my opinion not at all.. we are here to help one another and we all know that someone else is better at something than another.. there is and always will be cheaters..we dont need to condone it or give them a chance to reap benifits here..
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
    One hand washes the other!
    Don't put off today till tomorrow!

  3. #3
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    Quick proof would be a shot (picture) of the bowl in progress on a lathe with the bodger's left hand clearly visible in the picture. The finished bowl would again be photographed with the bodger's left hand clearly visible in the picture.

    Works especially well if the bodger wears a ring on their left hand.
    -- Tim --

  4. #4
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    People get hung up on rules and there needing to be rules IMHO. If the wolf were captured in the midst of performing as trained then that certainly wouldn't be in the spirit of the competition - to capture a still photo of a wild animal.

    In the case of a turned bowl, clearly the spirit of the competition is to submit a bowl turned himself/herself.

    I've never understood why someone would feel the need to substitute someone else's work for their own. With regards to woodworking, one simple rule of being required to share one's methods and techniques as part of the submission aught to take care of it. But all in all, it sort of feels like being back on the playground again. Fortunately, most of us have grown up.

  5. #5
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    Frank,

    Posting a *hypothetical* ethical problem is, in itself, an ethical problem!

    So forget any comment on the bowl issue!

    On the wolf: we all know what "wild" means, and if we sat down and talked about it there would be broad and shared agreement. Wild means wild!

    The other ethical dilemma here is questioning the judges, who were elected or appointed to use their best judgment. If we start questioning that, where does it end?

    Was there an appeal process? If no, we're done. If yes, was the process followed? If yes, we're done again...

    Thanks,

    Bill

  6. #6
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    I'm not much on contests anyway. I don't care for ribbons or awards. I do like the fact that shows bring a wide variety of work together for viewing but, as to who won or how? Don't care.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  7. #7
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    My take? Forget the online photographic contest on this or any other Forum. There's no way to prove anything. A "left-hand" as proof could be Photoshopped in the same way as I saw one of the wolf photos done. I've participated in juried exhibitions and believe that is the only way to be relatively certain that the person showing a piece actually made it.
    Bill Arnold
    Citizen of Texas residing in Georgia.
    NRA Life Member and Member of Mensa
    My Weather Underground station

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Lantry View Post
    Frank,

    Posting a *hypothetical* ethical problem is, in itself, an ethical problem!

    So forget any comment on the bowl issue!

    On the wolf: we all know what "wild" means, and if we sat down and talked about it there would be broad and shared agreement. Wild means wild!

    The other ethical dilemma here is questioning the judges, who were elected or appointed to use their best judgment. If we start questioning that, where does it end?

    Was there an appeal process? If no, we're done. If yes, was the process followed? If yes, we're done again...

    Thanks,

    Bill
    Well...That sure covers it well! I kinda wish I'd sais it myself.

    Thanks, Bill!
    Jim D.
    Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!

  9. #9
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    I can't imagine any woodworker submitting someone else's work as their own, either in a contest or just telling people they made something. Unless there was strong proof to the contrary, I'd accept their word for it.

    If it were ever shown that they lied, they would be ostracized from anything to do with other woodworkers.

    Mike
    Ancora imparo
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    I can't imagine any woodworker submitting someone else's work as their own, either in a contest or just telling people they made something. Unless there was strong proof to the contrary, I'd accept their word for it.

    If it were ever shown that they lied, they would be ostracized from anything to do with other woodworkers.

    Mike
    Mike, I wasn't going to respond for a while. But, like you, I can't imagine it. However, the realities of life prove folks do strange things. Even here, it could happen.
    "Folks is funny critters."

    Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too. ~Voltaire

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