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integrity dilemma

Mike Henderson said:
I'll add a little story and see how other people respond.

I have a friend who's helped me a great deal, and is always "available" if I need something. The other day, he asked me for something which required me to go out of my way to satisfy his request. I was talking with my wife about it and I told her, "Robert has helped me a lot so I want to stay on his good side."

She got kind of indignant and said, "Don't you ever just do something for someone without thinking of what you're going to get in return?"

I replied, "Men keep score."

What I meant is that I feel an obligation when someone has helped me, and I expect another person to feel the same way. If I've been helping you, and then I ask you for help in return and you refuse (without a good reason), it'll likely be the last time I help you.

Do you share that "ethic"? Or do you just do good deeds and not "keep score"?

Mike
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I understand where you're coming from Mike. One of my very best friends has always been there for me even when I didn't know I needed help. Early in our friendship, I always asked what I could do in return. He'd respond "in return for what?" It was completely foreign to me that friends would give freely simply because it was the way they were. There came a point where I realized that I could never begin to put a value on what he's given to me and I stopped considering it. In return, I treasure every opportunity I can help him, and his wife for that matter. They're a great couple and I'd do anything for them without any expectations of receiving in return. Why? Because they're my friends. I also find that attitude overflowing into other areas as I try to be generous with my time and help others without expecting anything other than knowing they're life is just a little bit easier. To sum it up, I've learned that keeping score was a burden that kept me from being a better friend to those I considered friends and a better citizen to those in my community.
 
First, I wouldn't take a contest here or any website seriously. I would enter but only for fun. Some things in life are important...most aren't.... If I entered a contest here ...I wouldn't worry too much about the outcome...would just enjoy the resulting comraderie and ribbing....

I have a small group of close friends. I have never kept score of what I have done for them but I seldom forget what they have done for me. As a result I feel obliged or obligated to do something for those friends...within the constraints of the law, of course.
 
Mike Henderson said:
...I replied, "Men keep score."

What I meant is that I feel an obligation when someone has helped me, and I expect another person to feel the same way. If I've been helping you, and then I ask you for help in return and you refuse (without a good reason), it'll likely be the last time I help you.

Do you share that "ethic"? Or do you just do good deeds and not "keep score"?...
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I kind of go both ways. I have a few close friends for whom I'll do pretty much anything, and I know they'll do the same. I wouldn't say we keep score, but we know anything we contribute to the friendship will be returned many times over. On the other hand, if an acquaintance or neighbor helps me out, I do remember it and try to be sure to return the favor somehow. On the other other hand (three hands?), I get a kick out of doing favors and good deeds for acquaintances, neighbors and strangers, expecting nothing in return (other than goodwill, perhaps). I'm a firm believer that those sorts of acts come back to me too, just not necessarily directly from the person I help.
 
Sorry say so guys but what this " keeping score" issue is somehow hijacking the original thread. The original theme was about competition and cheating on them not making favours.

We had some competitions here, I can remember participating on the turned snowman one, and maybe there have been others, and I don't think that one would fall within what we are talking about.

I think that the question is "why would anyone want to cheat on a competition" the answer is easy: money, or its substitutives praise and reward, in here as we are a family, we get those ( even money) without having to compete for it.
We appreciate it when a more skilled member shows his work, ( at least I do) because it spurs me to want to reach that level, and if I succeed that's the price in itself. Someone could call that competition,(or envy) I call it teaching and learning.

No price, or reward is expected from those who post, although we all appreciate getting good comments as it helps our ego. Matter for another thread would be why there are so few constructive critics apart from good comments when someone posts a piece of work.
Taking criticism is difficult to learn, reasoned constructive critics are even more difficult to give:dunno:
 
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Toni Ciuraneta said:
We appreciate it when a more skilled member shows his work, ( at least I do) because it spurs me to want to reach that level, and if I succeed that's the price in itself. Someone could call that competition,(or envy) I call it teaching and learning.

No price, or reward is expected from those who post, although we all appreciate getting good comments as it helps our ego. Matter for another thread would be why there are so few constructive critics apart from good comments when someone posts a piece of work.
Taking criticism is difficult to learn, reasoned constructive critics are even more difficult to give:dunno:
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I agree with Toni, part of being a family is helping each other and giving and taking critcisism is part of that process.
 
Toni Ciuraneta said:
We appreciate it when a more skilled member shows his work, ( at least I do) because it spurs me to want to reach that level, and if I succeed that's the price in itself. Someone could call that competition,(or envy) I call it teaching and learning.

:
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I appreciate it when anyone, beginner or pro posts their work. To me, participation is what makes a board have value.
I enjoy a pros build as much as anyone else, but I appreciate the guts it takes for a beginner to show his first box.Im sorry for the off thread movement on my post frank.
 
Toni Ciuraneta said:
No price, or reward is expected from those who post, although we all appreciate getting good comments as it helps our ego. Matter for another thread would be why there are so few constructive critics apart from good comments when someone posts a piece of work.
Taking criticism is difficult to learn, reasoned constructive critics are even more difficult to give:dunno:
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I've offered constructive criticism by PM but I tend to avoid it in the public forum. You're right, though, we need to decide how to do it properly. I had one person who had posted his work on several forums reply about how frustrating it was not to get any constructive comments and suggestions. He said that all he got was "good job" comments but he needed suggestions because he was working alone without more experienced woodworkers to give him guidance.

Mike
 
Mike and Toni just a thought you may wish to consider in the seeking of constructive criticism. I consider myself such a rookie that whilst i might have a like/dislike of a design, finish or outcome of a project posted, i dont feel suitably competent to offer critique. To me work that is above my grade is well "a good job or a fine piece" I am impressed to no end at times.

However those of you out there with greater abilities will see areas of improvement and I would hope that its an area where huge help could be afforded to people who post when you offer critique.


Mike as to your post of keeping score, i prefer to help with no expectation. Then you aint disapointed when there is no reciprocation. My experience on this forum is that many follow this path too. But (there always has to be a but) I hasten to add there are people that i have come across that no no end to requiring assitance to the point of simply not wanting to help themselves at all. Thats where i draw the line. :D
 
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