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Thread: Long Shot

  1. #1
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    Long Shot

    My latest design. I have high hopes for this one to be a 'go-fast' boat for the high horsepower paddler. You never know till you get it built and actually paddle it, but on paper it looks darn fast.



    I figured more everyone knows how I build them so I am not going to bore you with details. But here is the photo of the (almost) finished frame. I just need to install footrests, drill the painter holes and ...... I think that is it.





    For those of you that followed along on VARDO, it has proved to be a really good paddling boat. Much better than I anticipated. It's proving to be one of my favorite boats.
    God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
    the good fortune to run into the ones I do,
    and the eyesight to tell the difference.


    Kudzu Craft Lightweight Skin on frame Kayaks.
    Custom built boats and Kits

  2. #2
    Looks like its moving just sitting there! I like the looks of it.

  3. #3
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    Looking really fast on the drawing, but what makes a boat faster than other?

    Sleekness? Low gravity center? Smooth skin? Ribs profile? I guess that everything can affect performance positively or negatively. My knowledge of boat design is nil Jeff, so please bear with me.
    Best regards,
    Toni

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________
    web site:http://www.toniciuraneta.com
    I also dream of a shop with north light where my hands can be busy, my soul rest and my mind wander...

  4. #4
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    Looks fine. But looks tippy to me. Whatca covering it with?
    I know a feller who has built some racing canoes he covers with Kevlar. Can see through the stuff. Canoes are so light a good wind will take them away.
    "Folks is funny critters."

    Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too. ~Voltaire

  5. #5
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    Frank, I am covering it with a 7 oz nylon. That is as light a skin as I will use. I have seen the Kelvar covered boats. The ones I have seen use a really lightweight material that is just not strong enough for my tastes. They work but you just have to be careful with them. With mine you don't have to worry about anything except a really sharp piece of metal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toni Ciuraneta View Post
    Looking really fast on the drawing, but what makes a boat faster than other?
    Sleekness? Low gravity center? Smooth skin? Ribs profile?
    I guess that everything can affect performance positively or negatively.
    Your last sentence summed it up perfectly!! The short answer is the lower the resistance of the hull against the water the more speed it will make for from the same amount of effort of the paddler. But you have to be able to keep the boat upright and that is where the compromises start Toni.

    Everything in hull design is a compromise. The most efficient hull shape is round, like a circle. It has the least amount of wet surface area and the lowest resistance. Problem is it has no stability, there is nothing to keep it from rolling upside down. So you have to flatten out the hull and/or add some flair to sides so you paddle it, that makes the resistance go up. Adding width (generally speaking) makes a boat more stable but it tends to make it have higher resistance too.

    Longer hulls have more speed potential but they have more resistance at the slower more normal speeds. Racers like longer boats while most of us need shorter boats. Then there is point when it gets so short it needs to be wider to be stable. It's a viscous circle and everything you do is a compromise. It just a matter of finding the best compromises.

    This boat is a little bit longer for better higher speeds but that means it takes more effort at slower laid back paddling speeds.
    I used a more rounded hull shape to lower the wetted surface area. That means it is going to be less stable and will take a bit more experience for the paddler to be comfortable in it.
    I made the ends fairly narrow which lowers surface area but this lowers the stability of the boat some.
    I could make the boat even narrower and make some pretty big increases in the performance POTENTIAL (not that I am strong enough to take full advantage of it). But I doubt I would be comfortable in the boat because it would be so tipsy.
    Last edited by Jeff Horton; 03-07-2010 at 10:43 PM.
    God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
    the good fortune to run into the ones I do,
    and the eyesight to tell the difference.


    Kudzu Craft Lightweight Skin on frame Kayaks.
    Custom built boats and Kits

  6. #6
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    Thanks a lot for this introduction to boat design Jeff. I might come back to you with more questions.
    Best regards,
    Toni

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________
    web site:http://www.toniciuraneta.com
    I also dream of a shop with north light where my hands can be busy, my soul rest and my mind wander...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Horton View Post
    ...............Longer hulls have more speed potential but they have more resistance at the slower more normal speeds. Racers like longer boats while most of us need shorter boats. Then there is point when it gets so short it needs to be wider to be stable. It's a viscous circle and everything you do is a compromise. It just a matter of finding the best compromises..........
    Dunno if that was intentional or not, but it really struck me as funny

    It looks really great Jeff, I bet some of the speedsters will LOVE it

    Honestly, for a guy set up to do woodworking, how much would one of these boats cost, all in, not counting labour?

    About design, a friend of mine back in my hometown, his family owned and operated Campion boats in the 70's and early 80's, they did a lot of innovative hull designs (for back then) and his dad always said that if it looks fair, it probably is fair, fair being his term for good behavior in the water, but he also built a lot of prototypes, some of which we got to horse around in We would have to wear a hockey helmet and a good life jacket, but we were told to abuse the boats and ride them hard, turn hard, etc. we did break a few boats, but it was fun.

    I tell you Jeff, your boats are getting better looking all the time, I can't wait to see this one on the water!
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
    William Arthur Ward

  8. #8
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    For some reason Champion Boats rings a bell with me. Not sure if I ever saw one of not? Sure sounds familiar though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Ablett View Post
    Honestly, for a guy set up to do woodworking, how much would one of these boats cost, all in, not counting labour?
    Materials are probably $300? A lot depends on what you have available to you. You might spend more or less. And it depends on how you rig it out too.

    Locally, $50 for a sheet of marine plywood. $35 for cedar for the stringers. Skin, ball park $60 but that depends on what you use. Waterproofing is another $50.If you use my full size plans that's $69 That would get you a bare hull for around $260 maybe as much as $300.

    I always put in a GOOD seat, backband and footrests in mind. Then add a little for deck rigging, that will probably will add another $150 - $200. Just depends on what you want. I would be on the high side because I don't skimp on seating. I spend to many hours in that seat and if your not comfortable, you won't paddle it. So a complete boat would cost you around $400 to $500 well rigged.
    God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
    the good fortune to run into the ones I do,
    and the eyesight to tell the difference.


    Kudzu Craft Lightweight Skin on frame Kayaks.
    Custom built boats and Kits

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the answers Jeff!

    Oh, it is Campion, no "H" in there

    They have been building boats in my hometown of Kelowna BC since 1973.
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
    William Arthur Ward

  10. #10
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    Just thought I post a couple of photos. I am through with the Moaning (Rocking) Chair and I am in what I consider the finishing stages. I expect to have it "all sewn up" tomorrow. Pun Intended.





    God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
    the good fortune to run into the ones I do,
    and the eyesight to tell the difference.


    Kudzu Craft Lightweight Skin on frame Kayaks.
    Custom built boats and Kits

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