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1/2" vs 1/4" shaft router bits

well, call me confuse but are this collet the one that hold the bit in the router
 
Don Baer said:
Jim I plan on getting a new collet and bit tomarrow but I was wondering since I am doing 1/2" dove tails then I should be able to cut the dove tails without a collet, it will change the profiles a bit but that should be OK..:huh::dunno:
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If ya don't use the collet the bit will fall out.:thumb::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
As for the dove tail guide I know my dove tail jig would not like a spinning bit rubbing on it.
Oh and with out the guide the pins and groves will be different sizes. At least that is what would happen with my PC jig. It would allow to much side slop in the fingers thus cutting the grove wider and the pin smaller.
 
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Chuck Thoits said:
Hey look theirs a jig and a nice shinny new router. Is taht router as new as it looks?
If so one would not think the collet would be worn out all ready.:dunno:
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Yes the router is brand new, that why the confusion in the first place, Although I got it in august the only time I used it was to test out the jig. The bit was also bought at the same time but I used the bit in my router table quite a bit with another router that is not nearly as new.
 
I gots me two of those routers and neither have given me any fits like this. It's quite strange what yer seein'.

My only guess is a bad bit? I dunno ... i don't think collet size is a factor here. It's possible the 1/4" collet was a dud, but every one of my milwaukee tools (at least 4 that i can think of off hand) are of the utmost quality - though mistakes do get through even with the best of 'em.

I don't disagree with the friction physics, but I'm not sure that's the only thing at play. The force applied to the mating surfaces will have an impact on how well it'll stick. If a 1/4" bit comes loose in a collet designed for it, something's wrong with that bit or that collet. Like I said, I've spun 1/4" bits much bigger'n 1/2 dovetail bits in the milwaukee routers I have with no problem what so ever.

I suspect the bit, just because I have no reason to doubt the quality of the collet - besides fluke friday-manufacturing :)
 
That could be the culprit Jason If the shank on the bit is just under sized the collet would not grab as well as it should.
 
Im not sure why manufacturers still make a 1/4 inch collet.
Ive been led to believe that most of the panel cutters and bigger router bits need the stability of that 1/2 inch shaft, which is pretty obvious, because its hard to find a panel cutter or other large headed bit with a 1/4 inch shaft.
Every bit made can be made in 1/2 inch, so why keep making 1/4 shafts when its obvious a 1/2 inch is much more suitable for everyone?
I dont think the cost is really that different for the manufacturer, but I wouldnt purchase another router unless it had 1/2 collet.

But what I dont know about routers could probably fill 9 books.
 
Cost still has something to do with it. 4x (lemme check that below .. ) the steel in a 1/2" shank - when yer makin' tens of thousands of 'em it's a factor. Also, cutting a 1/4" straigth bit out of a 1/2" rod is wasteful. Dovetail bits aren't super high-stress bits and wouldn't really benefit from a 1/2" shank since the dovetail tapers down to at least 3/8 or less.

Also, need is a factor. You don't need 1/2" on a dovetail bit most of the time. They're just not under that much stress. Frank mentioned those great big shaper bits - they need thicker shanks not because of grip but because of flex and vibration and stability.

I've got some 1/4" shank 1/2" radius cove bits that hold just fine - though they're a little wiggly so it takes a couple passes to get a smooth cut.

"When in doubt, build it stout" is a slippery slope that isn't always the best solution. :)

EDIT: Math verification:

1/4" shank 1" long = 0.049087385212341 cubic inches
1/2" shank 1" long = 0.19634954084936 cubic inches

Yep - about 4x :)
 
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Chuck Thoits said:
Have you look online to see if any one else is having this problem with this brand router?
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Chuck,
I've heard nothing but rave reviews on that router, an internet search confirmed it. I first became interested in the router in Nov of 2005 when I did the workshop with Sam Maloof. Thats the router he used and we all know he realy uses his routers a lot. He loved it but that might be because of the strap. He liked to one hand it when He used a router. He usualy had the router in 1 hand and the piece he is working on in the other :eek:. he didn't even have a router table set up..:D

Jason Beam said:
I gots me two of those routers and neither have given me any fits like this. It's quite strange what yer seein'.

My only guess is a bad bit? I dunno ... i don't think collet size is a factor here. It's possible the 1/4" collet was a dud, but every one of my milwaukee tools (at least 4 that i can think of off hand) are of the utmost quality - though mistakes do get through even with the best of 'em.

I don't disagree with the friction physics, but I'm not sure that's the only thing at play. The force applied to the mating surfaces will have an impact on how well it'll stick. If a 1/4" bit comes loose in a collet designed for it, something's wrong with that bit or that collet. Like I said, I've spun 1/4" bits much bigger'n 1/2 dovetail bits in the milwaukee routers I have with no problem what so ever.

I suspect the bit, just because I have no reason to doubt the quality of the collet - besides fluke friday-manufacturing :)
Click to expand...

Well I'll pic up a couple of bits tomarrow and order a new collet if I cant find one localy just to have one.
 
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