Saw Stop vs the others

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OK stay calm. No bashing of SS or other brands.

If you take the SS finger saving technology out of the mix, what makes a SS good. I mean if it didn't have the tech, why would you buy it? If it wouldn't be for the tech, what would you have bought different? Is there anything that makes it special? Fence? Fit and finish? Options? Handle placement?

Like I said, not trying to bash one or the other, just looking at the whole picture.
 
never used one steve but have seen them in use and the guy using it liked it .and not just becasue it had the brake in it.. the saw is well built according to him. and the brake is just the frosting on the cake. if were to look at another saw it would be the saw stop just because of the brake. and according to your picture i am betting you would too now:)
 
Now see, you went with the tech side of it. You did say the guys likes it because it is well built, so I will let the tech thing slide.

And yes, my thumb would have been greatfull. It only hurt for about an hour. It did grow back out. Doc was amazed.
 
you need to see a ss and a competing brand side by side.

raising and lowering the blade is better (less effort, smoother)

there are safety switches on all the doors.

the on off paddle is positioned correctly for my leg to turn off the machine.

the mobile base is the best out there.

shipping container is fool proofed. There is an indicator that proves the saw hasn't been tipped over in transit

The fence is excellent.

The castings are really heavy and really precise. i.e. trunion

the instruction manual is well written.
 
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With out the break I don't think I would even look at it. I'm not bashing it but lets face it with out the break it's just another no name saw. That who knows how long they will be around to service the thing. Well made is nice but if you can't get parts than it's just useless.:rofl::rofl::doh:
Now with the break I'm thinking about one. But prolly will end up with a used PM
 
Chuck makes an excellent point here. Until the recent court case we all read about here on our forum, I was not aware of he history of the SS and how a road its been to get to where they have.

That said if the guys that own it, were to completely sell out to the big brother, then big brother could dispose of the brand/prodcut entirely and leave all the break guys out in the dark. What would it be like not being able to get breaks into the future.

This is a point i dont think people have considered. And lets not say this aint possible. The recent car industry shake up saw a number of brands axed. I have lived through a company sale before where the express purpose was to take out a competitor to be able to raise the prices in the market.

Good point Chuck especially when you consider a hobbiest is likely to consider the SS his last saw and expect support for say 20 years. This brings up the whole point of electronics being involved with mechanical things and just for a moment consider how long our computers last us by comparison to say a bandsaw. Heck we got examples of old iron that show up any electronic piece of kit. Thats why i still like an engine that has points and generator you can fix these things yourself. Not so for all the modules that come in these things and dont forget the brake in the SS is a module.:huh:
 
The company that makes the SawStop is the same company that makes the iCarver I have for testing, I met and I've talked to the engineer and project leader of the iCarver extensively. This is the same company that makes a lot of the tablesaws out there, they are in Taiwan a Democratic country, they are NOT in China, so don't go down the "Bash China" route :)

Do you remember that there was a delay, I think near a year long when the SawStop first came out? Do you know why that was? I was told that when they took the contract from SawStop to build the saws, the specs for the saw were so high and the tolerances were so tight they were a bit surprised, but they were confident that they could build the saw in the same factory using the same tools that they built all the other tablesaws they built, Oh, did I mention that this company is the largest builder of tablesaws in the world? The build or have built, Grizzly, Delta, Ridgid, Oliver (they actually now own Oliver) General International, DeWalt, etc etc. Well they found out that they were wrong, the could not build the SawStop to the specs wanted in the old plant, the tolerances were just too high, so they broke ground and built a new plant just to build the SawStop. I was told this story in person at the trade show I met these guys at, where I first saw the iCarver, I went to said trade show to see the SawStop in the flesh, as I was looking to get one, a Japanese company imported it (and wanted over $10K for it :eek:) I was walking around and I saw these guys in a booth with some lathes and the iCarver. I heard this story before I owned a SawStop.

I've never owned a saw that is of this quality, but I've worked on a few other cabinet saws. The saw is extremely well built. The safety feature certainly figured big in my decision to buy it. If you take the safety feature away, it is still a great saw, I think on par with anything out there in the same price range, (I'm talking about the SawStop Professional model) but how can you take the safety feature away :huh: That is like saying "He is a really wonderful guy and very helpful, but he is an axe murder, but lets just ignore the axe murder thing for now... :rolleyes: :D

The riving knife is a very important safety feature as well, as it will stop the vast majority of kickbacks. I know that some of the others are finally putting real riving knives on their saws, but in Europe, they have had them on their saws for nearly a generation, why are they only now coming to North America? I think part of the reason is because of the SawStop, this is a great feature of the machine, and this also raised the bar, so the other makers have had to respond.

If you want "Cheap and Cheerful" with no safety device, but a decent riving knife it would be hard to beat the Grizzly G0690. The thing is, as I get older (yes, I know I'm not old, or even close to it) I have recently started to have some trouble with my hands, they take a lot of abuse, and I've started to drop stuff, enough so that I'm noticing it, well, this is exactly the kind of simple "Whoops" that can end up in a trip to the emergency room, I'm sure we all know someone in that boat :doh: If you can afford the more expensive saw with the built in safety feature, then that is a choice you have to make, if you really cannot, then you cannot. :dunno:

I know of several cases of guys (none here) on other boards that were like "SawStop, what a waste of money, I've been working on tablesaws for 30+ years, I've still got all 10 of my fingers....yada yada yada..... " one simple "Whoops" later, three months off work (hard when you are self employed) and $50,000 in medical expenses..... guess what they bought :rolleyes:

Would I buy one again, yes, in a heart beat, and I think if you are looking at moving up to a full on cabinet saw, honestly the last saw you will ever buy, then the SawStop is a great choice, the safety feature just makes it a better choice, but in the end, that is what it is, a choice, and one that only you can make :wave:
 
Great input guys. This is what I was looking for. When I seen the first one, Woodcraft, it was the best ever built. I guy didn't care if it was made out of cardboard and would cut a piece straight if it had too.

Stu, that is why I was trying to get around the tech part. First thing everybody does is go with the brake. Well what about the rest of it.

As far a parts in the future, shouldn't be a problem for me. When I get my bigger shop, they will be out long enough to know if they are going to be around for a long time.
 
I have used the Industrial cabinet saw from SS It is a great saw and as good as any I have used. I also have a good friend with a new Delta Uni-saw a 5 HP model. The new Delta IMHO is every bit as well built saw. In particular I think it has the best guard design that I have ever seen on a saw and I love the way the riving knife release is at the front along with the front controls. With that being said the safety brake is a nice reassurance on the SS. I would consider both saws if I was in the market.

I under stand how quickly accidents can happen as I have the middle finger of my right hand is about 1/2" shorter and a numb index finger on the same hand because I severed the nerve in that finger at the same time. This was all do to an accident on my jointer. It was my fault because of being complacent but could have been much worse.

Good Luck

Alan
 
Excellent post, Stu.
We do a lot of goofing around here but your post proves why FW is a great, and valuable, forum.
Your words are very thought provoking.
The problem with your hands is a concern, at your age, that kind of problem is way-way too soon. Hope it can be helped.
 
Just to elaborate a bit more.

The brake adds $600 to the saw's price. The rest of the premium price is comprised of refinements.

When I was buying the saw, I looked at all the saws. I subtracted out the cost of the brake and then evaluated the other contenders. Among the contenders was the new PM 2000 (2008), the venerable General 650, Delta's Unisaw, and the Mini Max sliders.

The new generation Unisaw wasn't available at the time of my purchase.


Once I stripped out the brake from my decision I compared those saws. I love General tools, but I think I ruled it out because at the time it didn't offer a riving knife.

MM and PM? MM lost out on the space requirements.

PM? Everything about the PM was nice, but the when I compared it side by sider (literally at the store) the SS won out based on its quality. It was a feeling when I moved the saw blade up and down and on angle. It was the glide of the fence across the table, etc. There was just alot more "there" there than on the PM.

What if I had chosen the PM? I would be happy with it. Same with the General. The MM? I would be really really happy with that because that would have meant a new workshop (addition to the garage) as Anna, aka Mrs Mioux, would not have had room to park her Durango in the garage anymore. ;)

the long and short of it.....and at that time, 2008, it was a wise buy for me. Anna likes the idea of the brake system. I like its quality. It is a big difference between my old GI contractor saw.

Purchasers of table saws each have their own special concerns and needs. As a hobbiest, I like the idea that I don't have to rationalize all my hobby purchases. Sometimes I just buy it because I want it.

Now, if I were buying this saw for my business I may have had different requirements. ROI comes to mind as does insurance issues. I am sure if I were purchasing the saw for my business I would have been more concerned with my ROI and how much money each saw would cost or save me in premiums..... or at least I would have been inquiring with my insurance agent.

just some additional thoughts.

joe
 
Just a question, Does anyone know of anybody who has been saved by the brake? As I understand it, it will save you if you stick your finger in it, but you could probably still induce dangerous wood throwing kickbacks if you do something unwise with the saw....
 
Just a question, Does anyone know of anybody who has been saved by the brake? As I understand it, it will save you if you stick your finger in it, but you could probably still induce dangerous wood throwing kickbacks if you do something unwise with the saw....

the riving knife is there IF the user chooses to use it.

Kickbacks are still a potential hazard so good technique is required. However, I do use those yellow push things.... I can't think of their name atm...

the ones that create a tunnel over the blade as you push wood through the blade.
 
I rarely post on anything but turning, but having had 65 stitches (I'll send you a picture) and a bone graft in my left hand, the $600 difference is a small price to pay for $36,000 for 3 surgeries and 3 months and months of PT with my hand in a cast. Seldom do we appreciate what we have until it's gone. I am more than blessed to have 90% use of my hand and not be afraid to "hit the tools". $600?? buy 5 of 'em.;)
 
Yeah, good technique is key no matter what. Probably 50% of the cuts I do on my Grizz involve a crosscut sled, and the rest of the cuts I try to always use finger boards, board buddies, etc...

I WISH it had a riving knife, but it doesn't. So I try to always use other methods to make sure thinks stay safe.

<ADD_Story_Mode>
I worked in a molding shop as a college kid. Worked on the outfeed side of a gang saw for a while and saw quite a few spectacular 'kickbacks' where a piece of wood would get caught by a blade and get sent flying at high speed back towards the guy on the infeed side of the blade. The guy I worked with actually had a piece of wood go right through his hand one time (not while I was there, just a story he told me). It was pretty amazing how fast the wood would fly, and how loud the bang would be when it hit the back end of the building...
</ADD_Story_Mode>

I'm all for folks buying a Sawstop, cause fingers are priceless.
However most of the stories I've heard of people who get hurt using table saws usually start with phrases like "I wasn't paying attention" or "I didn't think things through quite right".

I actually have a friend who almost cut his arm off with a miter saw, because of doing something stupid. A long sleeve shirt and making a cut with an arm reaching across the path of the blade...

Not trying to hijack the thread, just wondering how many real world examples are out there of people sticking their appendages into the sawstop blade and having the technology actually save them. Wondering what they did to get it to trigger the brake....
 
So Jim, Couple of questions...

1) Do you have a SawStop now?
2) What was the situation that caused the injury?


I rarely post on anything but turning, but having had 65 stitches (I'll send you a picture) and a bone graft in my left hand, the $600 difference is a small price to pay for $36,000 for 3 surgeries and 3 months and months of PT with my hand in a cast. Seldom do we appreciate what we have until it's gone. I am more than blessed to have 90% use of my hand and not be afraid to "hit the tools". $600?? buy 5 of 'em.;)
 
Y
I'm all for folks buying a Sawstop, cause fingers are priceless.
However most of the stories I've heard of people who get hurt using table saws usually start with phrases like "I wasn't paying attention" or "I didn't think things through quite right".

I actually have a friend who almost cut his arm off with a miter saw, because of doing something stupid. A long sleeve shirt and making a cut with an arm reaching across the path of the blade...

Not trying to hijack the thread, just wondering how many real world examples are out there of people sticking their appendages into the sawstop blade and having the technology actually save them. Wondering what they did to get it to trigger the brake....

First bold text: I bet there are alot more untold stories out there of people using poor technique, ignorance and/or not paying attention and then getting lucky by not having a piece of kickbacked wood hit them. I have had the brake engage on the second or third cut I ever made on my saw.

Second bold text: I forgot to readjust (move the fence back away from the blade. it was set for my old saw) my Osborne miter gauge fence. I nicked half the width of the blade kerf with the tip of miter gauge. The brake engaged. The only damage sustained from the miter gauge was the black grip paper was cut. The aluminum miter gage was virtually untouched.

so yea, I know my saw works. It was an expensive "oops" of inattentiveness.
 
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