Seeking guidance from the collective

Actually don't know what to expect from y'all, but worth asking none-the-less. Talking over the future with my fiance this evening the subject of the house came up. It has been my plan for a while now to spruce up the current dwelling and put it on the market when the market was again healthy. Right now I'm about $30K upside down in the financing. The house is in a quiet, safe neighborhood and is actually plenty big for two people coming in at just under 1,100 sf. The plan was to move to a slightly larger house with a much larger shop and a garage (the shop now occupies the garage).

As we looked into the crystal ball (selling prices of other houses in the neighborhood) we realized that it could easily be 3 to 5 years before my house was once again worth what I owe the bank. That puts me into retirement age!

So, the conversation turned to staying here and making whatever changes would make our lives more comfortable. The shop size, 21 x 22 shared with the furnace, WH, laundry, and the rear end of a fireplace, was still the sticking point.

One of the improvements I had planned on when I thought I was going to stay here till I take my last breath was the addition of a front porch. That porch would be 8' deep and 20' long. It occurred to me that I could bump out the front of the shop 8' to match the edge of the new porch and thereby increase shop area by 40% to 30 x 21.

The roof line over the extension of the garage/shop would mimic that over the bedroom wing on the other side.
This pic is about 7 years old. I really need to find a newer one.

I don't know off the top of my head what the cost would be. Probably around $10K (the roof needs to be redone also and this would be a good time to do it).

What say ye? Am I crazy? Naive? On the mark? I think adding 8' to the shop would be a huge improvement finally allowing room for a real assembly bench. Granted, long and narrow might not be the optimum layout, but the extra square footage would still be a blessing.

I say go for it. If you like the area and are happy there, by all means then stay. You really can't plan on the market, experts are still saying it ain't over.

One other thing. Looking at the elevation of the yard, you might have to redo part or all of the driveway too. Hard to tell from the picture.

I'm in a similar situation. My kids are gone and the wife and I have about 2400 sq ft to maintain. Our house value has dropped 35% in the past 2 years. Pretty much wiping out all of our equity. We have decided to tough it out and somehow come up with the $2600/mo mortgage until things improve with the job situation, construction, and home values. We figure 5 years.
I'm pretty handy with repairs, little savings left and I have a lot of time on my hands so I'll probably do everything myself.
We have decided that making the house prettier, redoing all the bedrooms, and replacing some of the plumbing and sticking out the next 5 years is the only logical and financially sound idea.

Well Rennie you are in a nice house in a nice location with some great upgrades that you have already completed, pretty good place to start/stay Will you have enough driveway left taking 8 feet from it? will you keep it a "garage" for resale at a later date? If that is what you and your pretty lady want go for it and here is a little newer pic for ya

Steve Southwood said:

One other thing. Looking at the elevation of the yard, you might have to redo part or all of the driveway too. Hard to tell from the picture.

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Yes. Keeping a level floor in the garage will require changing the grade on the driveway. The drive has a few major cracks anyway, so it would be desirable to replace it. Add some more $$

Bob Gibson said:

I'm in a similar situation. My kids are gone and the wife and I have about 2400 sq ft to maintain. Our house value has dropped 35% in the past 2 years. Pretty much wiping out all of our equity. We have decided to tough it out and somehow come up with the $2600/mo mortgage until things improve with the job situation, construction, and home values. We figure 5 years.
I'm pretty handy with repairs, little savings left and I have a lot of time on my hands so I'll probably do everything myself.
We have decided that making the house prettier, redoing all the bedrooms, and replacing some of the plumbing and sticking out the next 5 years is the only logical and financially sound idea.

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My house is now worth about what I paid for it 13 years ago. Values here did not sore out of site as they did in some areas, but we still lost about 35-40%. I have plans to do the kitchen and 2 baths this year and some more upgrades to the living room. That was all being done in prep for a future sale. Now it will be to make us comfy I guess.

Tom Niemi said:

Well Rennie you are in a nice house in a nice location with some great upgrades that you have already completed, pretty good place to start/stay Will you have enough driveway left taking 8 feet from it? will you keep it a "garage" for resale at a later date? If that is what you and your pretty lady want go for it and here is a little newer pic for ya

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yes, I'll move the current door forward so the next owner gets an over sized garage - a desirable option. Even with two (not-too-big_ cars in there the next guy could operate a small shop, 8 x 21, in the back. The drive is 45' from the apron to the inside edge of the sidewalk. So I'll still have 37', longer than some other drives in the neighborhood.

Thanks for the newer pic!

I have always wanted a porch, myself...

Here's another thought. Would your zoning restrictions instead allow you to bump out the SIDE of the garage? This would give you 8-10' of more WIDTH to the garage, rather than increase the depth. This lets you leave the driveway alone. This lets you split the project in two if finances require it, since the porch and garage additions would not touch each other. (of course, doing them together is probably cheaper than doing them separately)

You have a fairly shallow roof pitch right now. How would you graft 8' onto the front of that? Would you put on a flat roof? I'd worry that would look kind of ugly. Or would you raise the peak of the whole house?

Best wishes, Rennie. We start our addition in about a month...

Just as important, if not more so, as the financial situation is the attitude of your fiance about your current home. If she would be comfortable there, I would go ahead with the renovations. That's what LOML and I are going to do starting this summer. Best of luck on your decision; it's not an easy one.

I say add 16 feet to the garage. Both ways

Rennie Heuer said:

That was all being done in prep for a future sale. Now it will be to make us comfy I guess.

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Rennie,

It's gonna be a while before the market comes back... under any economic scenario. Some are worse than others...

That said, you're right. Whatever you do should be for your own enjoyment and benefit. If it's worth it for you both, and you can swing it, it seems like a good plan.

I think Art may be right about the roof pitch issue. You might get the most bang for the buck by bumping out to the side. Forget aesthetics for a minute: what's the cheapest option for the most square feet?

Thanks,

Bill

Art, if I understood him correctly, he will add a gable end to match the other end of the house, I'm guessing a bedroom, that extends out from the main body of the house.
What I see as a problem would be in redoing the grade of the driveway to match the addition of the garage, you would also have to do something to the yard on both sides, or there would be a drop off from the drive to the grass. You could stair step that with stones to make an easy walk up, but you'd be in trouble if the car ever went over the edge. (Think older years and mis-judging the drive when turning in )
So what is behind the garage? If back yard, can you go back that way? I'd think, if that is possible, that would be the best thing, and probably cheaper by quite a bit. If that isn't workable because of more house behind the garage, then to the side if you have enough room before the easement would be best. It could actually be a third garage. Just some random thoughts. Jim.

Art Mulder said:

I have always wanted a porch, myself...

Here's another thought. Would your zoning restrictions instead allow you to bump out the SIDE of the garage? This would give you 8-10' of more WIDTH to the garage, rather than increase the depth. This lets you leave the driveway alone. This lets you split the project in two if finances require it, since the porch and garage additions would not touch each other. (of course, doing them together is probably cheaper than doing them separately)

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I had thought the same, but I'm on a corner lot and up against the setbacks on three sides. Anyhow, what the difference between 21 x 30 and 22 x 29?

Art Mulder said:

You have a fairly shallow roof pitch right now. How would you graft 8' onto the front of that? Would you put on a flat roof? I'd worry that would look kind of ugly. Or would you raise the peak of the whole house?

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I'd come off the main roof with a ridge perpendicular to the main, same as the other side of the house. The two ends of the house would match turning it from an "L" to a "U".

Ron Jones said:

Just as important, if not more so, as the financial situation is the attitude of your fiance about your current home. If she would be comfortable there, I would go ahead with the renovations. That's what LOML and I are going to do starting this summer. Best of luck on your decision; it's not an easy one.

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We've talked about this - you're very perceptive. She stayed here for a few days back around Easter. She feels comfortable here.

Chuck Thoits said:

I say add 16 feet to the garage. Both ways

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Would if I could!

Jim O'Dell said:

Art, if I understood him correctly, he will add a gable end to match the other end of the house, I'm guessing a bedroom, that extends out from the main body of the house.
What I see as a problem would be in redoing the grade of the driveway to match the addition of the garage, you would also have to do something to the yard on both sides, or there would be a drop off from the drive to the grass. You could stair step that with stones to make an easy walk up, but you'd be in trouble if the car ever went over the edge. (Think older years and mis-judging the drive when turning in )
So what is behind the garage? If back yard, can you go back that way? I'd think, if that is possible, that would be the best thing, and probably cheaper by quite a bit. If that isn't workable because of more house behind the garage, then to the side if you have enough room before the easement would be best. It could actually be a third garage. Just some random thoughts. Jim.

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Right on the roof

Behind me is about 20' of backyard to the fence line - I'm as close to the property as allowed already so going back is not an option. I will double check with the city just to make sure I'm reading the zoning reg correctly.

There's not a huge grade difference, only 4" in the 8'. I don't think that would present too great a problem. If I have the driveway done I'll likely make it about 3' wider, 18" on each side, to allow easier access to the vehicles.

Rennie Heuer said:

I had thought the same, but I'm on a corner lot and up against the setbacks on three sides. Anyhow, what the difference between 21 x 30 and 22 x 29?

I'd come off the main roof with a ridge perpendicular to the main, same as the other side of the house. The two ends of the house would match turning it from an "L" to a "U".

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When I hear porch, I think of a structure with a roof. So I was trying to imagine a roof that encompassed the new porch as well as the garage. Pulling out a gable over the garage is certainly doable.

As for setbacks... you could also check into how difficult it is to get a minor variance. I'm going through that song-and-dance right now with my city. (in order to put a 2nd floor on our attached garage) It's time consuming, but the guy at the planning office told me I have little to worry about; These are almost always approved here.

Dont do any alterations. Save the money and pay off the mortgage. Go out and generate a ton of work first and then use the proceeds to expand when neccessary.

Sorry to be the wet blanket. Times are tough and we aint youngsters anymore.

So i vote for no expansion, no alterations and no improvements to something that is underwater already.

In fact the tactical thing would be to consider walking away but thats not real.

Think like a businessman. If your business is so underwater that its gonna take 5 years to get back to where you were a businessman would close up shop and start a fresh idea in a new place. Thats what banks have bad debt provisions for. Unfortunately there are negative side effects to these things in a personal capacity.

Rob Keeble said:

Dont do any alterations. Save the money and pay off the mortgage. Go out and generate a ton of work first and then use the proceeds to expand when neccessary.

Sorry to be the wet blanket. Times are tough and we aint youngsters anymore.

So i vote for no expansion, no alterations and no improvements to something that is underwater already.

In fact the tactical thing would be to consider walking away but thats not real.

Think like a businessman. If your business is so underwater that its gonna take 5 years to get back to where you were a businessman would close up shop and start a fresh idea in a new place. Thats what banks have bad debt provisions for. Unfortunately there are negative side effects to these things in a personal capacity.

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How do you stay so happy?

What are the height restrictions in the area? Can you go up? I have done it a few times to homes here. Restricted by set backs and such we have ripped the roof off one area like over the bedroom area ( assuming that is the bed room at the opposite end from the garage) and put a second floor on. Not saying it is a perfect solution but just another one to throw out there.

Rob Keeble said:

Dont do any alterations. Save the money and pay off the mortgage. Go out and generate a ton of work first and then use the proceeds to expand when neccessary.

Sorry to be the wet blanket. Times are tough and we aint youngsters anymore.

So i vote for no expansion, no alterations and no improvements to something that is underwater already.

In fact the tactical thing would be to consider walking away but thats not real.

Think like a businessman. If your business is so underwater that its gonna take 5 years to get back to where you were a businessman would close up shop and start a fresh idea in a new place. Thats what banks have bad debt provisions for. Unfortunately there are negative side effects to these things in a personal capacity.

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Rob, I agree to a point, but only when we are talking about businesses, a home is not the same. When you close down a business you have certain one time expenses, but when you walk away from a home, you still have to put a roof over your head each month.

As to finances, I do not know Rennie's situation, so I have no way to comment on that, I very much doubt that Rennie is so irresponsible as to let this expansion put him in a bad financial situation, and I'm not saying that you think he is irresponsible either Rob. You are correct that paying off the mortgage is always a good thing, maybe the expansion could be spread over a longer time frame, to defray the cost, while paying more on the mortgage each month?

So if you go ahead with the expansion, you would put a veranda in between the two, or an uncovered porch? Would you grow some shrubs or something fro some privacy?

Looked at the first picture again. You might have to do something with the 2 vent/ exhaust pipes and the chimney could be real close to the new valley also. Without knowing the width of the house, I am thinking the new ridge, over garage, will be higher then the other two ridges. Won't notice it from the front, but you would see a small upside "V" from the back.

Rennie,
It's a nice plan, and certainly doable, and it would be aesthetically pleasing to the neighbors, too. There might be a bit of problem with altering the grade on the left side of the driveway, adjacent the birch tree, though. It appears to be a bit steeper drop to the street than the right side.

My one big question, though, is your budget. Unfortunately, $10K doesn't go very far these days. With the grade work, the re-roofing of the whole house, the concrete work, and the materials cost for the addition (assuming you're doing the building work yourself), I'd be thinking something more than triple your estimate.

Contrary to Rob's opinion, I think you should do it. Make the house/shop into what you want to spend the rest of your days in, and let your heirs be the ones to worry about the market value.

You've seen my place. That's what we're doing. We've got/are getting it the way we want to live in it, and we'll let somebody else quibble over what it's worth when we're done with it.

Ron Jones said:

Just as important, if not more so, as the financial situation is the attitude of your fiance about your current home.

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My wife brought up this exact point last night when I was talking to her.

It reminded me of the fact that when we bought our home 12 years ago, the reason it was forsale was that the previous owner had been widowed, and he was now getting remarried, and they wanted a new place to build new memories.

I also have to say that Rob makes a very good point. The financial position of you and your fiancee is really none of our business, but it sounds like you owe quite a lot on this mortgage yet. Please be careful, prudent, and wise with your money!

That said... I believe that this is what you are talking about?



And a porch of some sort would fit along the front of the house between those two wings?