What would our forefathers say?

Rob, great thread. Thanks for getting it started.

Mr. Fusco - is that the folding rule I sent you a couple of years ago?

Sometimes, a couple of thou looks big, like when it's a gap on a dovetail. Most of the time, I try to design so two pieces don't have to line up perfectly, but rather have a bit of offset, for example when a leg meets an apron.

We have to use our eyes. "If it looks fair, it is" makes so much sense.

I have a precision rule that reads to 1/64". Big deal - I can't see to distinguish between the 1/64" marks and certainly can't mark a piece of stock to that tolerance. 1/32" is doable, barely, on a good day. 1/16" is much more attainable and is probably fine for 99% of the woodworking most of us do.

So, why do I have rules marked to 1/64"? Advertising hype - if it's more precise, it must be better, right?

Jim

Thats a very good point Jim.

I try to take advantage of stops and jigs whenever possible to ensure that the parts are the same size.

So a refinement of the classic woodworking axiom might be "Measure Twice, Set the jig, Cut as many times as you want' without worrying about measuring again". Okay, that might not be as catchy, but I think it gets the point across.

Great thread.

As I am moving into "fine" woodworking, I have been pondering the issue of how much precision is needed.

I was starting to justify the need for tight precision from the aspect of - if I start with tight precision, then the movement of the wood will not have as much impact as if I start with less precision.
Does that make sense?
If I cut within 1/32, and the wood moves 1/32, then I am out 1/16th. If I cut within 1/16, and the wood moves 1/32, then I am out 3/32. Of course, the wood is not going to be consistent when it moves, so it still may not matter.

If it works, and it looks good, then I was precise enough.

Actually the more I think about this the more I realize that I buy what I buy cause I'm just plain old tired of making do with what I have. When I first started working in cabinet shops we had to make the best use of the tools we had and adapt them to do what we needed. Thats fine cause I learned alot by doing that. Now that I finally have my own shop setup I just assume buy the tool for the job or that will make my life easier. My new digital guage for the tablesaw is one example. I didn't get it for the 3 decimal place acuarcy. I got it for the feature of being able to zero it out and move it a certain number of inches repeatedly. I can also remember dimensions better lately if I see them written out rather than remembering witch line I was on. I guess loml and I just enjoy our new tools.

Alan you make a very good point about making it easy. So does Darren about compensating for skill requirements though in my mind there has to be a BUT....

I think of the time when i was studying physics way back when.

The institution that i studied at was an old place so old that we were using vacuum tube voltmeters in basic electronics experiments. Before we could do an actual lab we first had to get the equipment to work. Then when we did the experiment we had to be careful to be use we understood what was happening and got the anticiapted results due to the equipment deficiencys.

No another school at the time had been newly built by the gov to cater to their constituency and everything in it was the latest greatest newest kit.


Strangely enough the academic results from this new school did not compare to mine.

What i put it down to was the fundamental need for students to get down and dirty and understand the first principles thereby developing a real understanding of the subject.

In woodworking judging by your great skills i would say you already have those skills aparent from the statement you make of having have made do in a shop you worked in before.

Giving a guy like you tools to make things easier adds to productivity in my opinion so its a real win.

But a guy like me is robbed of the learning aspect. I learnt things in life because i tried and made a mistake and as Allen has pointed out you move on and try again.

If we examine the word woodworking, the name says it all working wood. Not a class in being a machinest.

This is why i am finding i am gravitating more and more to Neader ways to learn wood and how it behaves when you have a cutting edge interact with it in different ways. Then when you use a machine to gain productivity and repeatability one has the first principle understanding.

There is no beter way to get to understand wood than to plane it by hand inmho. All the basics are involved there. A sharp cutting edge, correct presentation of the edge, understanding and interpretation of grain make up and direction of grain, then to top it all, when that gossamer thin shaving occurs not only huge satisfaction, but the visibility of the cell structure of wood.

I think one is robbed of this experience when you start out like i did with a DW735 and get an instant smooth edge for a price. Or your first dovetail you cut is using a router and a jig.

Add to the above the comments some have made in the woodworking fraternity that many newbies are deterred by the high cost of woodworking. Yet one can quiet viably have a neander set of tools and a fold out bench and do woodworking on a balcony of an apartment. Or for that matter one could have a mini lathe under the same conditions.

If this precision tool marketing element is left unchalenged by those of us already participating in the hobby, to me it is detrimental to the hobby itself.

I know and love the way our forum makes guys welcome regardless of whether they have the latest and greatest tool cause lets not forget we caught fish with a piece of line and pole when we were young and I did that right next to the guy with the fancy smancy fishing rod.

IM not sure if this is in line with this thread.But Ill go to one specific aspect of woodworking, for instance:
Me personally, I dont see any reason for making dovetail joints by hand UNLESS, read that, UNLESS you want to enjoy the challenge of it all.
Do people who cut dovetails by hand impress me more than other woodworkers, nope, not at all.But that doesnt mean Im not impressed by hand cut dovetails, it has talent written all over them, but also means someone spent time learning to do it. I respect each persons belief and what they feel is important to learn.
Seems to me there is a certain amount of irony in someone who wants to go back to the way our forefathers and early woodworkers made joints, but go out and buy a 250 dollar dovetail saw. Im quite sure anyone I know, if they were taught properly, or spent enough time practicing,with expensive finely tuned saws and chisels will eventually, like anything else, practice makes perfect, will get the hang of cutting dovetail joints by hand.
I do not feel personally a piece of furniture with hand cut dovetails is worth a nickel more than the same piece with machine cut dovetails.
Embracing technology is not a bad thing in my book..
If its not breaking your wallet, why shouldnt you purchase a 735 and smooth out large amounts of wood as compared to hand planing one board for 3 hours. AGain, if you enjoy working your hand tools and enjoy nothing more than the connection you feel with hand planes and hand tools and wood, then you should hand plane things. To really impress me though, youd have to forge your own steel and make your own blades, then Id be impressed.
Buying a 200 dollar dovetail saw and 200 dollar hand plane, already shows youve embraced some new technology.not to mention the latest and greatest high tech sharpening wheels, sharpening jigs etc.....

I guess thats why I feel somewhat of an outcast around alot of woodworkers.
I love making furniture. Im not that good, but nothing Ive made fell apart in four years. And everything I make gets a ton of abuse and use.
Maybe my breadboards are off 1/16 of an inch, maybe my table is off .2 of a degree, maybe half a degree, maybe one degree. I dont know.
I do know that I enjoy learning about a new machine that will make my life with wood easier.
IM all for technology.
I bought some hand planes because sometimes I just need to plane something I cant shove into a 735.

Im rambling, been that kind of day.

Please dont misread me,
Woodworking is what each person makes it out to be for himself/herself.
Any woodworking contains a certain amount of beauty to me, and talent often shines through on pieces, even if I totally dont like a style or design, the talent is the beauty of the piece for me.
If my hands werent so arthritic, I might consider a class on hand planing, maybe cutting dovetails, but time is short, pain is real, and dovetail jigs are pretty simple to use as well as the 735.

Couldn't agree more Allen.
I have the desire to use a hand plane from time to time. Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble to start the dc and plug in the tools when 10 minutes with a plane would work. Well, if I had a decent plane or had sharpening skills.
In jr. high the shop teacher made us do everything by hand. It was nice learning the skills but as soon as I got to HS the power tools took over and my love of woodworking took off.
Besides, if our forefathers had the luxury of power tools don't you think that they would of used them?

Allen,
You are absolutly right woodworking is differant for everyone. Some folks are tool junkies, they collect tools but get very little done. Some always some prefer nieander tools. Some folks could get along just fine with a band saw, lathe and a grinder. To you it's the end result and you prefer the method that takes you there as easily as possible. I have a lathe, it's not the biggest or even the best but it gets the job done, would I like a bigger and better one, you bet. My table saw is a jet contractor saw, would I get a unisaw or a saw stop, in a heart beat. My band saw is a sears/Rikon 12" would I like a bigger and better one yup. I have the 735 like yours and it does a great job. Would I upgrade to a bigger one. In a heart beat but It is not at the top of my list. My Joiner is a old sears 6". In most cases it gets the job done and is on my list of future upgrades. Do I own hand planes and chisels and hand saws. Sure do and sometimes they arte the best tools for the job. The only stationary sand I own is a harbor freight with a 33" belt and a 6" disk. A PM 22/44 is on my short list of upgrades. My shop is small, 20x10 but I am in the process of tripleing it size.
Thats what makes this a special place we can all share the how and what we do and learn from each other.
As far as precision, I rely on fixture, stop blocks and jig to get repeatability. If I build a table or a chair and if it's within 1/8" that good enough as long as it's square, plumb and all four legs fit snugly on the floor that what realy matters. Are there imperfections and flaws in my work, yup but to most people they don't exist, only I know they're there.
All I can tell ya is kepp on doing what you are doing.