me and elektriks

Frank Fusco

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Mountain Home, Arkansas
I have said many times here, I am pretty ignorant of things electrical. However, I can do things if I see it and can duplicate.
But, also as I have said: "WHY CAN'T THINGS BE SIMPLE?" :(

Here is the deal. I am replacing the ceiling light fixtures in the kitchen. We have two. I did the first with little hassle. The wires on old fixture were: black to black; white to white and a ground.
The new fixture had same set up. I put them back same way as old and it worked and house did not burn down.
OK, good. :)

Went to second fixture. Same model as first. WRONG! :eek:
Looks the same but the wires are: ground; red to red; black to black; black to black to white and white to white to white.:confused:
New fixture offers only black and white and ground.

I'm bumfuzzled. :bonkers:

Other than calling an electrician, what should I do? :huh:

Oh, we did get a thunderstorm. Standing out in the lightening is almost sounding like a good solution. Would save ammunition and a mess. ;)
 
what bother me is the black to white. Normaly white is for neutral which is tied to the ground back at the breaker box. Black is on hot leg and red is another hot leg. from red or black to neutral you should get 110 Volts with power on and the swith closed. You should also get 220 between red to black. hmmmm puzzeling. It would seem to me that someone is using the white as a hot leg some how. This light fixture would be on a circuit where you have two swithed to turn it on or off would it ?
 
what bother me is the black to white. Normaly white is for neutral which is tied to the ground back at the breaker box. Black is on hot leg and red is another hot leg. from red or black to neutral you should get 110 Volts with power on and the swith closed. You should also get 220 between red to black. hmmmm puzzeling. It would seem to me that someone is using the white as a hot leg some how. This light fixture would be on a circuit where you have two swithed to turn it on or off would it ?

Thats usually running to a wall switch...
 
Sounds like this light is running off a three-way switched circuit, and one of those wire sets (usually the red one) is serving as a 'traveller' between the switches.
 
what bother me is the black to white. Normaly white is for neutral which is tied to the ground back at the breaker box. Black is on hot leg and red is another hot leg. from red or black to neutral you should get 110 Volts with power on and the swith closed. You should also get 220 between red to black. hmmmm puzzeling. It would seem to me that someone is using the white as a hot leg some how. This light fixture would be on a circuit where you have two swithed to turn it on or off would it ?

Yep, it is on a two way thingy that is really called a three way thingy. :doh:
 
I agree with Jim, the red is probably a traveler, whites all tied together are probably neutral (check with a meter).

A 3 way setup usually has the power coming into one switch using a black, white, and ground; then heads to the other switch with red, black, white, and ground; and then the other switch would have a black, white, and ground heading to the light.

Which wires did the old light come off of? Ground should be obvious, but of the other two wires you disconnected from the old fixture you should be able to determine which is hot and which is neutral with a meter, then connect black to the hot wire, and white to the neutral.
 
well you got alot good info frank and a electrician coming so you should be safe.. red for traveler was my first thought but they said it first... when you dismantle a light or switch write down what they had wired to what so you can fix it next time without help..its good way to learn old dogs new tricks:D:thumb:
 
what bother me is the black to white. Normaly white is for neutral which is tied to the ground back at the breaker box. Black is on hot leg and red is another hot leg. from red or black to neutral you should get 110 Volts with power on and the swith closed. You should also get 220 between red to black. hmmmm puzzeling. It would seem to me that someone is using the white as a hot leg some how. This light fixture would be on a circuit where you have two swithed to turn it on or off would it ?

Thats usually running to a wall switch...

Garry is right, there is a situation where you will find a white wire connected to black wire in a light box, but that white wire should be marked with a black line or tape to indicate that it is hot. The situation is when you wire a three-way with the power coming through the light. See option 2 on the linked page (down the page a bit). Also notice the different options with a three way. Makes your head spin.

http://www.homeimprovementweb.com/information/how-to/three-way-switch.htm
 
... when you dismantle a light or switch write down what they had wired to what so you can fix it next time without help..its good way to learn old dogs new tricks:D:thumb:

That's often saved my bacon. I still have to scratch my head pretty hard to remember how a 3-way light circuit is wired, but if I run into one that's already done, all I need to remember is what two points the old fixture was connected to. (Ground should be obvious.)

I'd also suggest spending a bit of quality time with your voltmeter and getting to know it better. They are really pretty easy to understand once you've used one a little bit, and they sure are useful when you do understand them. If nothing else, they are good for figuring out if a circuit is hot or not before you start monkeying with it.
 
Vaughn said, in part: ">>>good for figuring out if a circuit is hot or not before you start monkeying with it. >>>

Circuits and wires, to me, are like guns. Always loaded. :eek:

And with both electricity and guns, every once in a while you might need to work on them, so it's good to have a way to confirm they're unloaded. Also similar to guns, a healthy respect for electricity is good, but fear can be counterproductive, if not dangerous. ;)
 
And with both electricity and guns, every once in a while you might need to work on them, so it's good to have a way to confirm they're unloaded. Also similar to guns, a healthy respect for electricity is good, but fear can be counterproductive, if not dangerous. ;)

Never truer words. Found out even an unloaded gun can still be loaded.
Friend came over, took a look. Asked me if the wires were hot, I said "no". He touched a screwdriver to one big EL SPARKO. :eek: Uh-Oh!!! I nearly browned my britches. :eek: I didn't know what happened. :confused::confused:
He knew. With the three way switch thing he was pretty sure even though I had turned off the one switch the other was still sending juice.
No joke, it scared me plenty. I had told him it was safe then pulled the trigger with a load of buckshot in his face.
Enneyhow, didn't take long, he wired wat needed to be wired together. We put together, planted bulbs and VOILA :clap: it works. :thumb:
Thanks Bill. :bow:
 
...even though I had turned off the one switch the other was still sending juice...

Ah, I see you met Electricity Rule #4: A switch doesn't remove the electricity, it just interrupts it for a little while. ;) That's why one should always kill the circuit at the breaker (and still confirm it's dead with a meter or other reliable testing device) before diving into the wires. :)

Glad to see your buddy got it all figured out. :thumb:
 
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