Kitchen cabinet consrtuction/installation - Full disclosure

Rennie Heuer

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Just asking here - this should not be construed to mean anything other than an expression of curiosity. ;):rofl:

In the construction of kitchen cabinets, I've seen a process where the boxes are built without the toe kick - flat bottomed if you will - and 4" shorter than normal. Then a frame of 4" x 3/4" plywood strips is placed on the floor, leveled, and fastened. The boxes sit on this frame. This has the advantage of easier box construction and only having the frame to level rather than each individual box. Speedier installation, I should think.

Anyone ever tried this method in a kitchen? It is the method I used for my bedroom built-ins and, IIRC, it went pretty well.
 
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I haven't used it in any of the previous cabinet installs I've done, but I will plan to do this on my next one that I build cabinets for. I couldn't see any disadvantages to doing them that way. I typically fasten the cabinets around the top rim and behind the facing on the sides anyway. I'd think this method would make leveling easier as well.
 
Not only kitchen cabinets, Rennie, but all built-ins. Do it all the time. Whole lot easier and faster. Doing another batch of floor to ceiling bookshelves now. 5 units in lowers and uppers, 12 feet long and between walls, sitting on separate toe kick/risers (for lack of another term).
 
Yes I have and it works very well. I've worked in two shops that does cabinets like that. One in Baltimore and one in Houston. You also have the added benefit of a better yield from the sheet stock for the cabinets.

Personally for myself I build the cabinets as long as possible to minimize joints.
 
i have seen it done both ways and have done it the other way, but the cabs were made as such to be done like the other. the riser method makes for easier leveling on bad floors rennie.
 
My last kitchen, I used a 2 X 4 (on edge) grid to make the platform/toe kick, and then faced it with my flooring material.

Cabinet boxes were built as you suggest. It did make the levelling much easier.
 
Thanks to all that answered. Jan and I have been shopping for kitchen cabinets for a month now. We've been on a roller coaster! For our little 10 x 10 kitchen the cabinet prices have come in anywhere from $7,800 to over $12,000. :eek: Yes, that is JUST the cabinets. Add $2,500 for counter tops. We've priced local custom shops, Borgs, and local lumber dealers. Even with some great pricing promotions at the Borgs the cost seems to be too high - especially when you consider we have been pricing the entry level lines from the major manufacturers (like Kraftmaid, etc.) and the boxes at that level are 1/2 particle board! The furniture builder in me cringes at the thought.:rofl: As for the "low end, off the shelf" stuff, pure trash.

I've been toying with the idea of doing my own cabinets. I've got an email out to my supplier for the price on pre-finished plywood for the boxes. I'm not sure about the doors and face frames yet, but I'm toying with the idea of using the same vertical grain doug fir I'm using for all the woodwork. I know it's soft, but we have no kids to bang it up so it should fair pretty well.

I keep sitting down a taking deep breaths in hopes that the feeling will pass.:rofl::rofl: It's just that I think I can save about $3,000 doing it myself and that includes buying a new track saw to break down the sheets. Once I have all the costs together I should be able to nail down a number.

For the time being I'm busy scraping down 600 sf of popcorn ceiling. That should keep me occupied for another few days. Then, I guess, I'll have to make a decision as the sales on the cabinets end at the end of the month.
 
Lets go Rennie, make your own:thumb: I do not have an exact total of mine but I know I am BELOW your high price for my kitchen.......including purchasing my entire shop:eek:. Your already have your shop, you HAVE the knowledge and skills to do it, you have a new great assistant, so join Alan and me and let us follow along. You know you want to and I know it WILL BE GREAT:D:thumb::thumb::thumb:
 
hey rennie,

i considered doing them this way many times. only reason I didn't do it is because so many of my clients want the "furniture" look for their cabinets, where all the exposed ends need to go to the floor and I couldn't figure out a way to do this method and have that look. most of the ones I have seen like this have a toe kick on the side of the base cabinets as well.

anyone seen this done where the end panel of the base cabinets goes to the floor?

good luck with your decision rennie. i think you should definitely go with prefinished ply, that will save you so much time on the finishing end

chris
 
hey rennie,

i considered doing them this way many times. only reason I didn't do it is because so many of my clients want the "furniture" look for their cabinets, where all the exposed ends need to go to the floor and I couldn't figure out a way to do this method and have that look. most of the ones I have seen like this have a toe kick on the side of the base cabinets as well.

anyone seen this done where the end panel of the base cabinets goes to the floor?

good luck with your decision rennie. i think you should definitely go with prefinished ply, that will save you so much time on the finishing end

chris

Sure! Just make the 'kick' platform shorter by the thickness of your end panels, and then put the panels on last, after mounting the cabinets. You can either make the cabinet ends a bare frame, or make them of plywood. Either way, just add the end panel after the boxes are in place.
 
Chris,

I think Jim beat me to it. Anytime I have an exposed end, I just account for a false panel (either raised or plywood depending) and attach it afterwords.

Rennie,

If you're concerned about the scope of the project, I suggest you build the boxes and face frames and consider subbing out the doors to a specialty shop. I have a place close to me that only makes doors and drawers and 8 out of 10 local cabinet shops use them. It's been a couple of years since my last order but if I recall correctly, I paid around $12 per sq. ft. for a five piece raised panel door out of cherry including the outside edge treatment and European cup hinges holes predrilled.
 
Peter has it! You can even order on-line and UPS delivers. Likewise for drawer boxes, dovetailed even. And the last time I checked, cherry raised panels doors were less than I could buy S4S cherry, never mind any labor.

Slam dunk.
 
Chris,

I think Jim beat me to it. Anytime I have an exposed end, I just account for a false panel (either raised or plywood depending) and attach it afterwords.

Rennie,

If you're concerned about the scope of the project, I suggest you build the boxes and face frames and consider subbing out the doors to a specialty shop. I have a place close to me that only makes doors and drawers and 8 out of 10 local cabinet shops use them. It's been a couple of years since my last order but if I recall correctly, I paid around $12 per sq. ft. for a five piece raised panel door out of cherry including the outside edge treatment and European cup hinges holes predrilled.


Great idea :thumb:
 
rennie they have lead in the right road as for the doors and drawers,, now back to your ceiling,,they have a sander that has a vacume hooked to it on a pole that will make short work of the popcorn, much easier and better final outcome..most rental places have them or check with your local drywaller guy...they are sweet..
 
rennie they have lead in the right road as for the doors and drawers,, now back to your ceiling,,they have a sander that has a vacume hooked to it on a pole that will make short work of the popcorn, much easier and better final outcome..most rental places have them or check with your local drywaller guy...they are sweet..

I meant to mention that as well, especially if you do the skim coat after, that sander makes short work of smoothing out the ceiling. I borrowed one on my last house on my basement finish. It did a great job of keeping dust out of the air and my eyes.

I understand the fight between buying and building all too well, going through some of that now with hardwood flooring for the new house. Can buy and install unfinished much cheaper and to me will look better than the pre-finished stuff once finished, but pre-finished gets us moved in and living our lives much quicker. Sometimes in order to keep the ones we love happy we have to just bite the bullet(s), so "we" are going with pre-finished. :)
 
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I'll be calling the rental place later today - Thanks. I used my mini cyclone and shop vac with my ROS on some walls recently and it worked fine, but I was not looking forward to using it above my head. I had forgotten about the commercial units.

As for the drawers, yep - going to look into that too. However, I think I will do the doors myself. That's the part that is seen and where I can leave my signature.
 
Just do it Rennie. It's the only way you will be truly satisfied.:thumb:

I have between 35 to 40 linear feet of cabinets. I have about $3500 invested including the appliances and doing the granite tops. I cringe to think what it would have cost me to have someone else built what I have right now.

Just so you know I almost went the same route your contemplating but could not bring myself to do it.
 
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