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Thread: Bowl Gouge

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Goodland, Kansas
    Posts
    4,834

    Bowl Gouge

    Looking to upgrade my Benjamin's Best bowl gouge. Right now so far I have a couple in mind. The Ellsworth ProPM bowl gouge by Crown or the Oneway Double Ended Mastercut 1/2" gouge. The Oneway I could have the conventional grind on one end and the Ellsworth grind on the other or I could use the Ellsworth grind on both ends. As they told me I would only have to go to the grinder 1/2 as often. It is made of M4 HSS which is suppose to last 3X longer before grinding. One gentleman told me you can have all of his gouges but his Oneway double ended spindle gouge and his double ended bowl gouge. He told me he could turn a 10" X 4" deep black locust (HARD) bowl and not go to the grinder. That has me pretty impressed. The other tools are the Kryo tools that they say will last 6X longer. Any opinions on any of the above?? Thanks.
    Bernie W.

    Retirement: Thats when you return from work one day
    and say, Hi, Honey, Im home forever.

    To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    936
    All I can say is tha Black locust is VERRRRRRRRRRRY hard.

    I used my Sorby, when turning it. However, I have NOT used the ONE WAY or KRYO. I have some crown tools and they are pretty nice, too.

    Bruce
    Last edited by Bruce Shiverdecker; 02-13-2007 at 04:32 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    57
    Bernie,

    I once tried/experiment turning w/ my Crown Pro PM w/o sharpening and finished 6 bowls (2 ash bowl, 2 mesquite bowl, 1 maple and 1 chinese tallow).

    The bowls are from 6" to 11" in diameter. I think I finally re-sharpen before finishing the last bowl which is ash and those were my fist few bowls too...LOL cannot remember if I just don't know sharp yet then
    -------------------------

    Dario

    http://www.aoturnings.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Goodland, Kansas
    Posts
    4,834
    Thanks. Yep Bruce Black Locust is like turning concrete. That was the first wood I ever turned on lathe into a bowl. I almost gave up.

    Dario I am really leaning to the Crown ProPM. That seems to be the concenses. I bet that puppy could turn forever with some honing inbetween.
    Bernie W.

    Retirement: Thats when you return from work one day
    and say, Hi, Honey, Im home forever.

    To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    57
    I go for good value purchase and tend to do a lot of research and ask around before buying (have to w/ limited funds) and Crown ProPM I think is a very good value purchase. I know these will be my last bowl gouge...unless I want a bigger one later

    It is not the best but the best will cost you a lot more for not that much better performance.

    I also like the handles of Crown of all the ones I tried. Ofcourse this is highly personal preference.
    -------------------------

    Dario

    http://www.aoturnings.com/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Tokyo Japan
    Posts
    15,582
    Bernie, can you get the P&N gouges?

    I've been very happy with their tools, and I like that you can get them unhanded, as I enjoy turning the handles myself, makes the tools more user friendly, IMHO.

    I don't know about all of this "only have to sharpen once in a blue moon" idea, even if true, I think that most of us, do not head to the grinder soon enough, or often enough, so having just one tool that stays sharp for a long time might not be a good thing, as you may tend to NOT head to the grinder with the rest of your tools?

    Just a thought.

    Cheers!
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
    William Arthur Ward

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mountain Home, Arkansas
    Posts
    11,697
    Don't even bother to buy a bowl gouge.
    They are impossible to use.
    Touch and catch. Touch and catch. Can't be done.
    I know, I've tried.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    57
    Stu, As mentioned, I did that as an experiment. I don't do that on regular basis and don't have the time to turn a few bowls at a single day now.

    I am one who only go to the grinder when needed though (I feel my tool and how they cut) and don't have a set time.


    Frank, Once you got how to use a BG properly, it will become your favorite tool fast (for bowls). I haven't mastered it yet...just learned a few cuts but loving it already.
    -------------------------

    Dario

    http://www.aoturnings.com/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Woodlands, Texas
    Posts
    83

    Powder Metal Gouges...

    Hello Bernie,

    What a nice problem to have (needing another bowl gouge)... I've got about 35 different bowl gouges, in every metal alloy out there including M2 HSS, M4, ASP 2030, ASP 2060, A-10, A-11 and V-15. In addition, I have a huge selection of Cryogenically treated bowl gouges and lots of other Cryo tools as well.

    The Crown Pro-PM gouges are very good, I have several and they do hold an edge much longer than standard M2 HSS. Since you are needing a 1/2" bowl gouge, this may be an excellent choice for you.

    The Oneway M4 HHS double cut gouges are nice as well (I have three) and allow you to have two different grind profiles on each end. They hold and edge well and are versatile. One thing you may experience when working long distances off the tool rest with this tool is a slight vibration in the gouge. Since the flute is ground so far up the shaft, there is very little solid metal left to help stiffen the gouge and prevent vibrations. If you have a curved tool rest, you can eliminate this problem by keeping your cutting edge fully supported throughout your sweep.

    Cryogenically treated woodturning tools are getting a lot of buzz lately and are fine tools. I have been using cryogenically treated tools for several years, long before the major manufacturers offered them. I recently concluded a three and a half year study of cryogenically treated tools and published the results in my monthly woodturning newsletter "Lathe Talk".

    My testing included standard M2 HSS tools, including bowl gouges and some carbide tipped carving tools. The M2 HSS bowl gouges averaged a 250% increase in edge life over the non-treated gouges. (For testing, I purchased two identical gouges, one was cryo treated, one was left as it came from the manufacturer - M2 HSS). I really like the cryo treated tools and use them frequently in my studio. Note: Some timbers averaged a higher edge life than 250%, but when all were averaged - highly abrasive and regular timbers, the end result was 250% better edge life.

    If you want really good edge life, it's hard to beat the Glaser V-15 gouges. They are expensive, but they are amazing when turning abrasive timbers, or going through a lot of bark. They also work very well when turning "bad boys" like Australian Dead Finish, considered by many to be the most abrasive timber in the world. Its hard to come up with a favorite as all of these tools work well, but if I had to I would opt for the tools in this order:

    Glaser V-15
    Crown Pro-PM*
    Cryo Treated*

    The last two would be a toss up for a 1/2" bowl gouge. On other sizes, a clear winner would emerge. Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavors!
    Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

    Steve Russell
    Eurowood Werks Studio
    Professional Studio Woodturner

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Goodland, Kansas
    Posts
    4,834
    Thank you all for your help. Steve your info is really nice to have and I think it has made my decision easier. I think for my situation the Crown ProPM will probably be my choice. I do like the Oneway double ended idea thinking I could put a Ellsworth grind on one end and the conventional grind on the other end. Since I have the P & N gouges in 3/8" and 1/2" with conventional grinds I think the Crown will do it. I am like Dario. When I buy I try to buy the best I can with the funds that I have. Thanks again all for your help. It is greatly appreciated.
    Bernie W.

    Retirement: Thats when you return from work one day
    and say, Hi, Honey, Im home forever.

    To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone.

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