Selling, Copyright, etc.

Folks,

I am going to let this rest.

I make a joke, poor in taste
on a family forum after I am called loony as the homeless guy out side
of Kev's office. I agree with him in a humorous way so as I don't come
off as outright combative and disrespectful as he has done.

For the Record, I am not nor have I ever been a Crackhead.

But Kev, As Mr. Downey, Mr. Blankshain, and Mr Wenzloff have noted

I believe with both my heart and wallet you would lose this case

before a judge, despite your excellent credentials.

Little bit of professional redneck advice though,

I would ease up on the condescending tone,

we wouldn't want to give lawyers a bad reputation.

Good day.

Per
 
Per,

For the record, I didn't believe for a second that you are or were a crackhead....

Great advice.....

from one redneck, to another.
 
Folks,


But Kev, As Mr. Downey, Mr. Blankshain, and Mr Wenzloff have noted


Per

Per,

Who you talkin about Willis? :rofl: The last person that referred to me as "Mr. Blankshain" was looking for their paycheck. We are a "Family of Woodworkers" and all have opinions in one form or another, right or wrong. I just had some insight into the subject because in my field of work, you protect everything seven ways from Sunday. Just remember "if it ain't worth copying, it probably ain't worth makin".:type:
 
another law-talking guy . .

While I am a lawyer, none of you are my client, this isn't legal advice, and you shouldn't rely on it in any way. With that disclaimer:

While in a literal sense, one can argue that any embodiment of creative expression qualifies for copyright, the appliation of the law in courts is far narrower. While, as you point out, architectural designs receive copyright protection (not just the plans), that is a very specific protection. For example, it only covers permanent, stationary structures habitable by humans - a bridge, no mater how beautiful, would not qualify for such protections. As a general discussion, see Circular 41 at the Copyright Office website. And if you look at Circular 40, which covers copyrighting "visual arts", you see a discussion of the useful article issue:

A “useful article” is an article having an intrinsic utilitarian function that is not merely to portray the appearance of the article or to convey information. Examples are clothing, furniture, machinery, dinnerware, and lighting fixtures. An article that is normally part of a useful article may itself be a useful article, for example, an ornamental wheel cover on a vehicle . . . Copyright does not protect the mechanical or utilitarian aspects of such works of craftsmanship. It may, however, protect any pictorial, graphic, or sculptural authorship that can be identified separately from the utilitarian aspects of an object. Thus, a useful article may have both copyrightable and uncopyrightable features. For example, a carving on the back of a chair or a floral relief design on silver flatware could be protected by copyright, but the design of the chair or flatware itself could not . . . Copyright in a work that portrays a useful article extends only to the artistic expression of the author of the pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work. It does not extend to the design of the article that is portrayed. For example, a drawing or photograph of an automobile or a dress design may be copyrighted, but that does not give the artist or photographer the exclusive right to make automobiles or dresses of the same design.​
So the Copyright Office itself doesn't seem very impressed by the idea of an actual piece of furniture being copyrightable. Now copyright law is a little more complicated that Copyright Circulars, but Wood or any other magazine or book would have a hard time claiming a copyright in the furniture produced from their plans. I certainly can imagine furniture which would have a better chance of supporting such a claim, but a mission or arts&craft style nightstand ain't one of them.

A separate but related issue, however, arises from contract law. If, in exchange for a license to the copyrighted plan, you agreed not to sell any furniture that you made from the plans, you may have a contractual limitation on your right to sell the furniture. (There is a sort-of doctrine of copyright misuse, but it isn't applicable here). And the plans themselves, of course, are protected by copyright.

Overall, an interesting question, but I don't think it holds much weight.

[And Per, before I became a law-talking guy, I was a 300-lb guy from the Oranges. With that as my credentials, Kevin (I believe) did make a good point above. Nolo books may give a reader some insight into some of the legal questions rasied by an issue, but are not a reliable legal authority. Nor is the internet. Much of law is state-based law, and states can vary widely. Really widely. Copyright is one of the few areas of laaw that lawyers from different states can even debate because it's federal law. Maybe only IP lawyers would find this funny, but I recently saw that, according to Wikipedia, most courts hold shrinkwrap and click-wrap license invalid. That's not really the case . . .]
 
Just for grins, suppose I was manufacturing the WOOD magazine Morris chair design, explicitly following the plans. After making 25, I ordered another set of plans. Hmmmmm....

KC
 
Boy is this all an exercise in futility!

There is a lawyer joke around these parts that goes like this:

There was a young man from West Texas (Ozona, Van Horn or there abouts) who studied hard, got a scholarship to UT, struggled through law school, and returned home to hang out his shingle. He was the only lawyer in the county, but instead of making a living he almost starved to death. Then one day he looked across the street and saw a new lawyer's office going in. They both got rich.

The point is that unless you find someone with some really deep pockets no one is going to file suit. Consider that rookie lawyers get $70-80 per hour (that is a low number) for office time, and $160 (another low number) for court time and you would have to spend a minimum of $5-10k in legal fees just to stop someone from making a copy of your design (assuming that a letter from a lawyer didn't get them to stop). For their $10k Wood Mag. would stop KC from making any more Morris Chairs. So KC (sorry to use you KC but you brought up making more than 25) rolls over and doesn't even show up in court. What can Wood Mag. get? Well where KC lives, they can't take his homestead, car, or tools to make a living (or even his dogs) or garnish his paycheck. He goes to cash and his wife has the checking and savings account. Nada. Think OJ, Ron Goldman's folks are still trying to collect. So unless Basset et. al. rolls out an exact copy of your design, not a heck of a lot is going to happen, IMHO. The lawyer is looking for a payday, and unless it is a big payday, you will have to pay out of pocket to get anything done.

On the other hand, some guy sued Robert Redford, saying he pitched the idea for the movie "Down Hill Racer," and collected $$$ because no one could prove otherwise, even though the movie was made several years after the alleged pitching. It's all about deep pockets.
 
O.K., I'll try to make this as simple as possible. People, don't be so gullible.

Cheers,

Kevin

I am so glad you simplified it for us little people. It's a good thing we have smart lawyers to make clear for us the muddle they have created in the first place :rofl:

I'm with you Per.
 
Folks,

I am going to let this rest.

I make a joke, poor in taste
on a family forum after I am called loony as the homeless guy out side
of Kev's office. I agree with him in a humorous way so as I don't come
off as outright combative and disrespectful as he has done.

For the Record, I am not nor have I ever been a Crackhead.

But Kev, As Mr. Downey, Mr. Blankshain, and Mr Wenzloff have noted

I believe with both my heart and wallet you would lose this case

before a judge, despite your excellent credentials.

Little bit of professional redneck advice though,

I would ease up on the condescending tone,

we wouldn't want to give lawyers a bad reputation.

Good day.

Per


well per i am as well a uneduacated redneck.. and to thopse smarter thanus we try to tlisten but we dont have to be lookde down upon unless we did the same to them. oh and i can spell but cant ypte
 
Funny how Geoff was able to convey his thoughts and opinion and not make me feel like he thought I was dumb. Curious, huh.

Thanks, Geoff, Nice explanation.
 
one more thought

well i have been fortunate as of this date to not need one of the lawyer folk, i have seen bad ones, and good ones from a distance. just as they have seen bad wwrks or good ones and maybe just bad folk period. unfortunatly the ways of to many folk these days, look at life ,is what is in it for me. if i stumble in a parking lot on a piece of ice or gargbage someone left out and brake my leg and cant work for 9 weeks i am not gonna sue, but they are way to many folk out there doing just that. as for having to prove ourselfs innocnet or just in our methodes. the government and the laws have all been changed so much that we little people generally dont have clue. and that is where the mr bradys come in they treat the laws in the same way as the craftsman looks at a BOARD. they know it better than most of us ever will and probally care to know. this is for all the lawyers out there not just mr brady.. but i still dont feel that we need to be looked down on in anyway, and any of us!!!
 
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