vertical panel raiser tearout question

allen levine

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Im playing around with dovetail boxes today and wanted to raise some small panels for lids.None are for anything other than a bit of practice making accurate dovetails and floating panels. I went slow, tried different router speeds, moved the bit and fence in small increments to take small bites at first, then move them closer or higher, or both together, nothing seems to work.Is there anyway to control this? The bit is fairly new and good quality.

BTW-I love my new router/tablesaw combo. The flow is easy and its a simple task taking out bits, raising the router, etc.(and I use the tablesaw without moving everything.Im not thrilled with a collet adaptor, I dont know why, but Id prefer the new 1/4 collet for the smaller bits)
 

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Another option is to run the four panel defining cuts on the table saw. This gives you a very clean kerf. You then set the raised-panel bit to stop just shy of the clean shoulder.
 

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I am not sure about how to get a clean cut but I am concerned about a safety issue. It looks like you are running the board against the fence with the router bit on the outside. I was always told that was basically a climb cut and has a high potential to kick back. If I am wrong I hope someone here will correct me but that has always been my practice and training.
 
If I am wrong I hope someone here will correct me but that has always been my practice and training.

Not wrong in my book. I assumed that the fence position was random and just happened to be like that when the pic was taken. A captured cut of that type is a shortcut to the emergency room IMHO. John makes a good point about the design of those vertical bits. Right where you want the cleanest cut is their weakest performance area. Similar discussions have revolved around v-groove bits.
 
I had the same thought as Ralph. It looks like you're running the workpiece between the fence and the bit, and in my experience that's a recipe for a board launcher. I always have the bit sticking out from the edge of the fence in such a way that no more than 1/2 of the bit is exposed, and the workpiece runs over just the exposed part of the bit. That's why router table fences have the gap in the middle.
 
yeah, after having no luck with running the board face in, I tried a few cuts running it face towards me,I wanted to see the bit and if it was catching or maybe I was tilting it and it was catching. with no luck ofcourse.
I ran a piece of white oak before, without any cuts first, and it seemed to run through easy enough.
I keep cutting down 11 inch pieces of spanish cedar from one board, so maybe theres just a defect in the board. doesnt look like it, its a perfectly flat and blemish free board.
I have a regular panel raiser bit, but its actually too wide for the router opening on the aluminum insert. Not the plastic insert, the entire router opening, so I cant use it on this table.(Im thinkin its just time to buy a regular panel raising bit, a bit smaller so it fits)
Ive run a few raised panels with the vertical bit, havent had problems, but they were bigger, easier to manage, and a harder wood.
With a board only 7x11 inches, its hard to get a decent grip(for me at least) using the vertical bit.


I looked up and looked over some articles, and there was one where Beth(woodshopdemos) attached a higher fence and then put a featherboard higher than the bit top to secure the board. Looks like a good idea, so I think Ill give it a shot.
Make an auxillary fence higher, zero clearance the bit and the mount a feather board on a 2x4 that can be secured to the mitre track.
 
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Well this post sure is a good learning experience. Reinforcement again of the basic principle of zero clearance support. Now who needs a magazine to tell one that when you can get it from your buddies here.:D:thumb:
 
I did everthing, I still tore up the small boards of spanish cedar, and Im not wasting anymore 7 inch wide boards, I went through over 8 feet of it.

I run white oak or ash with no problems.


my next question-----

Im also practicing dovetail joints so I can join a case side to make a table with a drawer. It will be my first dovetailed piece(if I suceed, Im not betting all my money I will finish this one)with only dovetail joints for case and drawer.
So if I make some dovetails,(do not judge by the ones in pictures, they are practice), if I end up with tiny gaps in some of them, how is the best way to fill in the gaps to make them close to unnoticable. I dont think sawdust and poly will look good.All these and some more were cut same time with same adjustments on router and jig, weird how some are perfect, some are off so much.I hope someone here can give me a drop of help on this, otherwise trying for perfect dovetails all the way across an 18 inch board on 4 sides might mean alot of wasted wood. (I think Ill start with it wider than I want, so if I mess up, I can keep cutting off the dovetails and start over on same boards.)
 

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Sounds like the spanish cedar is the problem. If I remember right it's pretty brittle and chips out easily. Being that it's a lighter wood, it is probably vibrating a lot too.

As for filler on the dovetails, you might try some veneer or cutting a few thin slices in the same grain direction. This would probably fill the best. I always keep some sanding dust from the orbital sander bag handy to mix up as a wood filler too.
 
Allen darren has lead yu down the right path,, he has made them for sur ebecasue thats the best way to fix our mistakes so other may not see them:D:thumb: i am not sure how you can get one tail to fit right
and the other be open on one side.. normally they would be all open or tight.. and it usually is the hieght adjustment of the router that will bring them into fitting better..take and use some scrap and after yu get the right make anote of the router setting and the thickness of your stock..that all enters in on using a jig for dovetails.. the more notes you can put on paper the easier the next batch will be.. hand cut dovetials are a whole nuther matter,,for that yu need ken or toni or mike for the help you after:D:thumb:
 
the prazi jig has an adjusting screw to increase or decrease, and I adjusted it, but it seems Im having a problem with my router bit height and perhaps the angle I held the router at.(probably not completely flat on a few)
 
Allen, All I can tell ya on the dovetails is it takes a while to get things just the way they need to be. I cant tell you how many I made with my jig, some getting it adjusted and the rest learning how to properly use it and a few getting the bit depth just right but it paid off in the end now when I make drawers I always do dove tails since I can now do em as fast as any other way.
 
.All these and some more were cut same time with same adjustments on router and jig, weird how some are perfect, some are off so much.I hope someone here can give me a drop of help on this,

Allen,

I can only think of four things that might be going wrong:

1. Your fence is moving

2. Your router bit is moving

3. Your wood thickness varies

4. You're pushing the stock through differently.

Maybe others can think of something else. If it were me, it'd bet on #4, because I don't have steady hands. But your case may be different.

Don't worry, you *will* solve this. We all go through it. I sure did! ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
allen, you have a perfectly good raised panel jig for your table saw. now is a good opportunity to adapt it (read that as make a specific one for the task at hand) for the panels you want to make. that way you can spring clamp it to the jig, eliminate vibration, and you may get a cleaner cut than with the router. especially since you're using a light density wood like spanish cedar.
 
dan, I have 2 raised panel jigs. I have to redo them since the fence on this saw is different.
Id like to do them on the router so I can get different profiles.
I think the higher fence and the featherboard make the task easier.
Im going to be milling up some white oak the next few days, Ill give it shot.
 
I had the same thing happen to the pecan panels for my doors Allen. All I did was take the random orbit sander to them and the problem was gone. Try running thr panel thru your nice new drum sander if they are long enough to go thru and take a smidge off.

As far as the dovetails go and the gaps your getting the thickness of the wood shouldn't matter since everything is referenced from the dovetail jig side. The thickness of the wood will affect how far the pins go into the tails for a given setting on the jig. O the 2 drawers the bottom right one is the worst of them. Was that the first one you cut? If not then I would say the jig moved slightly or the router was tipped slightly. Been there and done that.

As for the gaps pieces of venner would work but I just carefully put glue in the gap and then proceed to sand with my random orbit sander and they disappear. Now is a good time to experiment and find out what works best for you on these sample pieces.:wave:

Edit: Just watched the video on the prazi jig and realized that I was thinking about half blind dovetails I cut with my pc dovetail jig and wood thickness not mattering once the jig is setup.:doh:
 
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