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Thread: glue for bent laminations

  1. #1

    glue for bent laminations

    Hi all,
    I am considering trying to make a chair that would employ bent laminations for strength... probably @1/8" lams. Is there anything special required in the way of glue, or is carpenters yellow or Titebond 3 ok?
    Thanks, Rick.

  2. #2
    There are those that claim White glue is best because of the longer set time. As for me I have been using Yellow for a long time and find it will stay smooth long enough for most laminationn applications. But that is my opinion and the experts who read more info than practice will always argue.

    Back in the dark ages there was a veneer mill not far from a school I once taught WWing for the 7th & 8th grades. They would offer their culls and large bundles of defects. We gladly took these free goodies and had the students laminate to make small projects such as back scratchers, salad forks & spoons, desk sets and whatever they could imagine to make. We were very successful with working with Yellow glues and students didn't seem to run out of time during their glueups.

    I feel white glue is lacking in so many bonding features that the risk of delamination from moisture exposure is more of a problem than the set time.

    Maloff fans can start their preaching now...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    ABQ NM
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    29,092
    My preference for bent stuff is plastic resin glue, like this. I've had yellow glue creep on me, whereas the plastic resin has not. Take that with a grain of salt, since I've not done a lot of bent lamination stuff, but that's been my observation and experience.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
    When the weird get going, they start their own forum. - Vaughn McMillan

    workingwoods.com

  4. #4
    Steve Clardy Guest
    I use titebond original on everything.
    Yes it creeps some, but has always held whatever I've laminated together.
    Bendable staircase railing, etc.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Placitas, NM in the foothills of the Sandia Mt
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    I'm taking some woodworking classes at Santa Fe Community College. Haven't taken the bent lam class yet, but I have seen some of the glue ups in progress. They use original titebond by the gallon.
    Don't believe everything you think!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    535
    I've used weldwood plastic resin glue and tightbond 3 with success. Weldwood is the stuff if you can't tolerate any springback (I was doing a 1 3/4" x 6" curved door jamb with a 40" semicircle that HAD to fit inside another as tight as possible). In the same house I did an eliptical french door jamb that was thinner and a bit more forgiving spacially. Over 5' there was about 1/4" to 1/2" spring away from the eliptical form on a 3/4" lamination. Tightbond is much easier to work with, especially if you've never used the plastic resin before, and I think they've got about the same open time.

    John

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Punta Gorda, Florida
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    Andy Rae (Furniture and Cabinet Construction) agrees with Vaughn and John. Plastic resin (resin powder/water powder). Open time- 20 min./20min. Clamp time- 1 hr./12 hrs.

    I just happen to be reading his book.
    Last edited by Allen Bookout; 02-18-2007 at 12:15 AM.

  8. #8
    Thanks all for the input.
    I made a table recently that involved veneers being placed on the curved apron similar to a demi-lune table but 6" wide. I hadn't had any experience with veneers previously and read a recent article in FWW describing the process and was quite surprised to see their experts recommending and using regular carpenters glue rather than hide glue. It appears that our modern glues have a very wide range of applications.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Villa Park, CA
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    1,407
    Quote Originally Posted by John Downey View Post
    I've used weldwood plastic resin glue and tightbond 3 with success. Weldwood is the stuff if you can't tolerate any springback (I was doing a 1 3/4" x 6" curved door jamb with a 40" semicircle that HAD to fit inside another as tight as possible). In the same house I did an eliptical french door jamb that was thinner and a bit more forgiving spacially. Over 5' there was about 1/4" to 1/2" spring away from the eliptical form on a 3/4" lamination. Tightbond is much easier to work with, especially if you've never used the plastic resin before, and I think they've got about the same open time.

    John
    Springback is related more to the number of laminations than to the glue or the thickness of the laminations. A good guide to the amount of springback you will encounter is the equation:

    y = x/(n^2)

    Where:
    y = springback
    x = the original amount of deflection
    n = the number of laminations

    So the best way to minimize springback is to increase the number of laminations. Springback decreases with the square of the number of laminations.

    Mike
    Ancora imparo
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
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    I think the formula for springback applies to the original springback.

    Normally I appreciate the creep of PVA (Titebond, Bordens Carpenter, etc.) when I am joining different species with slightly different expansion coefficients, or similar woods where the grain isn't perfectly aligned. It also works well for bentwood laminations, but (at least in theory) the pressure remains and the PVA will creep over time. The plastic resin glue doesn't creep over time so I expect that the original springback will also be the future springback if you use Plastic Resin. Therefore that is what I use when I do veneering, or bentwood laminations where I want to know what the final product is like.
    Charlie Plesums, Austin Texas
    (Retired early to become a custom furnituremaker)
    Lots of my free advice at www.solowoodworker.com

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