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Thread: What if,, caution, some have expeirnce in this

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Delton, Michigan

    What if,, caution, some have expeirnce in this

    well this something that is happening more all the time, and unfortunately some of our members are in this ship, its to big to be called a boat anymore..

    your over 55, got ailments and dont move as fast as yu used to. you are in the lower positions in the corporate world. your job is either eliminated or slowed down to a point where yu are struggling to make ends meet.

    the job market is dead, but yu still need to survive, you may have a house that you once had more than enough equity in and was making the mortgage just fine, now the value is less than yu owe or yur struggling to make the payments.

    how does one continue to stand up and smile and let the top ones continue to push yu down.

    where is one to go or do?

    dont get political just be honest and think about if yu were there what would yu do..because unfortunately yu and i both might just be there sooner than we thought. so if there is a chance of gettun away and not be washed away, the ones that are here now or can see it coming need to hear the wisdom. and find the path out of this mess.
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
    One hand washes the other!
    Don't put off today till tomorrow!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    new york city burbs
    unfortunately, this is a sad reality many people our age have to face.
    Im happy some of my friends that lost their jobs had wives/husbands that worked and were able to keep their lives somewhat normal. Ofcourse some had to use their life savings, or borrow from friends and family to keep things flowing.
    I do not think there is any quick answer or easy solution.
    I believe this is a time where family has to step up and lend a hand to their family members if they can afford to.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Thomasville, GA
    OK, I turned 57 in August, 2001. My birthday present from the company I worked for was a layoff notice. Unfortunately, a multi-national corporation had bought the privately-owned company I worked for, raided it and 98% of the employees wound up on the street. My last day of work was 09/07/2001. We all are familiar with what happened four days later.

    Over the next few months, any positions I was qualified for had umpteen applicants, most of whom were younger than I was. We won't discuss age discrimination! I drew unemployment until it ran out nine months later. With nothing else available, I went to work in a cabinet shop at a fraction of my previous income.

    The saving grace for LOML and I was our overall financial objectives since we got together in 1992. Our focus, and a lesson to you young whipper-snappers out there, was the important things. No, not expensive cars and a mortgage in the stratosphere. We had a very nice house in a great neighborhood - one that we could afford to make additional principal payments on along the way. We took nice vacations and enjoyed some fine dining but we still focused on our objective - financial security.

    During the unemployment period, I dipped into some investments and paid off our house. My wife's job was still solid throughout this period. Between her job and my going to work in the cabinet shop, we did just fine.

    Call it divine guidance or whatever, the job transfer from Texas to Florida in 1998 was timed well. The house we bought was quite an upgrade from what we had and it continued to appreciate gradually. Although we missed the peak values when we decided to move from Florida to Georgia, the amount we got was way more than the combined principal and interest we had paid. Since moving to Georgia, property values have remained fairly steady.

    Again, our experience is not to brag or anything of the sort. No matter where you are in life, you have to make decisions about what is important. We know there are people we met along the way who thought we should "enjoy life" more; i.e., spend, spend, spend. They are among the ones who are suffering now.
    Bill Arnold
    Citizen of Texas residing in Georgia.
    NRA Life Member
    Member of Mensa
    Live every day like it's your last, but don't forget to stop and smell the roses.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    somewhere east of Queen Creek, AZ - South East of Phoenix
    Speaking from experience. the company that I worked for went under, I managed to find a position with another and the same thing happened. I figured well a change of carrier path was in order, I wanted to work for a large company so i figured that I would be a truck driver. paid a large amount of money got my class A license and went on the road for a large trucking company. several problems showed up early the major one was not enough miles, the economy had effected the trucking industry and if folks ain't buying then folks ain't shipping. I'd get stuck in many god forsaken place and it still costs to live. need to eat and do laundry, i could sleep in the truck but it was costing me more to live then i was making after a year I came home and we continued to deplete our saving. I started the refinishing business and being new to it have had to struggle to keep enough our heads above water and that ain't fun so again what to do. After more self evaluation I came to the conclusion that I really liked selling and especially if I was solution selling. I knew I was good at it cause i had made a lot of money through the years, but sell what in a down economy who going to buys and what are they going to buy. I started drawing my social security early but that only slowed down the bleeding. The solution came to me right after I finished the commission for the church. I had gotten friends with one of the parishioners and and his wife he was amazed at the furniture. He asked me if that was how I made my living. My answer was will it is now since the company I worked for went under. He asked me what I did and told him sales. He mentioned to me that 11 years ago he had been in the same boat when Mervins closed up shop. He said the the company he worked with was selling Life and health insurance and that they had more business then they knew what to do and were looking for agent. The only requirement was that I would have to get licensed in the state . I went down and met with the area manager, I signed on and they sent me a contract. I can't sell insurance yet but I have been working with my friend from church and have made some sales through him and he has been splitting the commissions with me This coming wed I'll take the test and hopefully be able to right my own contract and keep all the commission.

    I guess what I am saying is it you enjoyed what you were doing and was good at it then if and when the ax falls look for another way to keep on doing what you know and don't try to re-invent things.
    "There’s a lot of work being done today that doesn’t have any soul in it. The technique may be the utmost perfection, yet it is lifeless. It doesn’t have a soul. I hope my furniture has a soul to it." - Sam Maloof
    The Pessimist complains about the wind; The Optimist expects it to change;The Realist adjusts the sails.~ William Arthur Ward

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Amherst, New Hampshire
    Wow Larry, you must be reading my mind.

    I'm 61. I have been in the construction supply business since 1976. I know personally every major tool and fastener supply business owner across the country. I have always considered the customers need first and have a following of millions of dollars worth of loyal, bill paying, and dedicated customers. What's that worth today???? not a damn thing.

    If I'm lucky enough to get an interview the employer tries to pick my mind and get insight on the customers he can't sell. Makes no difference that I can kick off sales immediately they end up hiring "Joe College."
    I'm totally sick and tired of it. I was lucky enough to have made decent money in the past. I had 15 months of reserve cash when the experts say you should have 6 months reserve. Well it's been 18 months now and the well is dry.

    Angry? you bet I'm angry. Can't sleep, getting grouchy, and have the added pressure of having kids and grandkids move back in. Good thing I have my shop downstairs or I'd be a real basket case. I am so tired of politicians and their nonsense that I can barely see straight.

    I've decided to get out of the construction tool business and strike out in a different field. Don't quite know what it will be yet but I'm looking at several different ideas.

    When I first got married I worked for a lumber company driving a boom truck. I wish to heck that I never decided to try and improve myself.

    Wow, so sorry to vent to you folks. But it's been building up for awhile. One thing I can say for sure is I am sure grateful to FWW and the great folks I've met through here.
    Faith, Hope & Charity

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    bethel springs TN, but was born and raised in north east PA
    Well this ain't me yet, but just this week my little brother(47) got informed that his co was going to eliminate his job. He is the shop supervisor with 40 some workers under him. They have offered him a job in Boreno Malaysia. If he takes it he's not sure how long it will last. He probbly will have to take it as in Northeast PA there ain't many jobs that fit his work history and education. The really bad part is he just got through remolding his house and spending over 50,000 dollars of his savings on it. He said that if he could go back to andros island in the bahanas he would do that, as he worked there 7 years and really loved it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Puyallup, WA
    Unfortunately I don't have any words of wisdom to offer you gentlemen but I do want you to know that my heart goes out to you and I'll make sure to include you in my prayers. I'm not quite there age wise (45) but with the economy being what it is, I've given the matter quite a bit of thought and frankly I haven't come up with much other than somehow doing my best to get into the health care industry. It seems to me that it's the one area where the need is only going to grow and it would be hard for employers to outsource these types of jobs to 3rd world countries.

    Obviously, not everyone can be a physician (myself included) but there are many behind the scenes jobs that keep the system going.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Kansas City, Missouri
    I'm not at the age of some of you. Going through a layoff last year was no fun and very un-expected. Luckily we had already downsized and weren't doing so bad. A few months earlier we had came about a week too close to foreclosure than I ever care to be, luckily we found a buyer for our house and got out from under the strain. Mostly due to that I guess the job loss didn't hit me as hard as it would have.

    I think when your in that situation you start really looking at what you can do to make money and where you can cut costs. I took my 2006 Silverado into Carmax and sold it to them for $3000 more than I owed. It would have been paid off in a few more months, but it was about $600 a month plus higher in insurance and taxes, which was money we needed. Not much later I luckily found a job that paid about the same as my previous, but I'm still driving the $3000 tahoe that I bought to save money. I'm hoping it will go another year or two and then I'll go buy another $3k-$4k truck. Sure I'd like to have a 'new' truck, but overall the savings helped us save the money we needed for our current house and gives us more money now to put away.

    As for any advice, I'm constantly learning what I can. Employers don't pay for training like they used to. It's cheaper to let an employee go and find another that has the experience, so you've got to constantly be learning and re-training yourself to make yourself valuable.

    Another option...Can any of you take your experience and put it into a consulting type of position? Be the local 'out-source' as a side job if you have one now, could turn into a full time gig if the person hiring you likes you...that's how I got on where I am. At the time I didn't realize it, but a lot of employers are bring in a person for contract work and hire them full time if they work out.

    OK, probably more than you wanted to know about me...but just my .02

    To a small child, the perfect granddad is unafraid of big dogs and fierce storms but absolutely terrified of the word “boo.” – Robert Brault

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada

    Part 1

    I dont take this topic very lightly. Forgive me for the long diatribe but i care so here is my 5 cents.

    I would urge all who are in this position to read a little book. It’s been around for many years and some of you might have already heard of it or read it many years ago. If you did read it again and refresh your memory.

    The title is "Who moved my cheese". Even if you hate reading get hold of a copy and read it. It’s a very small book if I remember correctly its no more than 20 to 30 pages if that.

    After that consider taking yourself back to the day when you were a baby or watch your grandchildren if you have any that are just at and around the walking stage. What you will observe is nothing knew but I would urge you to pause a moment and think about it.

    Animals are born and walk or get eaten. We have to learn. It’s the big thing that distinguishes us from them. When we are babies we get up and try to walk make the mistake of over reaching with those undeveloped muscles and sense of balance and fall. Sometimes or often as it was in my son’s case, we get hurt in the process too. That however does not stop us from getting up. We may need a nap and a meal but we get over it and in our hunger to progress try again the next day. Of course the reaction around us spurs us on too.

    Yet we seem to reach a magical number that’s slightly different for each of us and is around 50 when we have had a fair number of years and experiences. We have fallen many times and felt the pain. These experiences tempered our appetite for risk and allowed we begin to allow fear of failure to dominate our actions.

    The very actions and decisions that we used to make become agonizing to make for fear of failure. The consequence is fear becomes paralyzing and inevitably we begin to play life so safe that in some cases I have seen people jeopardize their career through indecision and risk avoidance at work. Do you really think the company employed you for the boss to have to make all the decisions.

    Many of you in my perception of you are incredibly self reliant and pretty disciplined in many areas of your life you share here. If you stop for a moment and reflect on this. Yet for some uncanny reason have been conditioned to the concept of a "job" in the same way the woman (forgive me ladies but it’s my experience of the majority of you) seem to think that owning your own home is security. There is no security in a job and absolutely none in a house you do not own and has a mortgage. Even if you do own it it’s not a liquid asset and so restricts your ability to go and seek cheese elsewhere.

    The recent fall out across the world has proven both of these points.

    So I find it fascinating that self reliant people are willing to subject themselves to becoming nothing more than the serfs of the middle ages working for the landlord or the banker. For that is what people do when they have a job in my opinion.

    The issue to me is you have to allow your instincts to kick in and hunt for work the same way you hunt for a deer. Selling yourself and your abilities and you certainly will find you that you have a string of abilities some that you have not even thought of or given consideration to with the focus on your situation.
    Last edited by Rob Keeble; 01-07-2011 at 05:14 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada

    Part 2

    Its my view the next generation will not have one employer but will simultaneously work for several companies or people at the same time and in so doing derive a living. If they aren’t flexible and multi talented or highly specialized and expert in a specific field they are not going to cut it just as happens and has been happening in the 3rd world.

    You have to be prepared to allow yourself to dream again. To believe you can do it and that you have value. But you need to get back to believing in yourself.
    There is a great deal of truth in the saying we are our own worst enemies. For we can be our own worst critics and beat ourselves up when we fail worse than anyone else can ever do. If you have a habit of doing this you need to consider stopping for you are destroying yourself in your own self speak. Yeah we all expect to not be making the stupid mistakes we all do. But most of you from what I gather are religious and those teachings make you aware that you aint perfect and in fact never will be as long as you human. So cut yourself some slack. Circumstances caused a change, a change that is traumatic at a mature age. There is comfort in knowing you not alone. But that is only if you want to wallow in self pity.

    I have a suggestion to make that will help you get back some of your spark if you will follow through diligently one what I say next.

    I would urge you if you find yourself in this place to sit down at the computer and write out your life story to date. Start with your very first job. You are writing to yourself. This document is for your eyes only, not even your spouse gets to see it, for you need to be incredibly honest with yourself and recall all your war stories, (figure of speech here). Don’t worry and get hung up on grammar and spelling get it out on the word processor and write as if you are telling a confident and speaking to a second person. Tell that invisible person all your little anecdotes and quirky experiences. Remember the times when you had great success, remember how you got punched in the face by the journeyman after you shorten his 8 inch adjustable wrench when you shorted it on a huge bank of batteries and experienced the power of direct current. Remember the recognition you have received over the years, the people and supervisors or bosses you have had. Remember what they taught you without you even being aware they were doing it.

    You will have moments when you need a hanky or Kleenex to wipe the eyes, and there will be moments when you will have a good laugh to yourself as you remember specific events. Work through all the years. Take your time and be thorough. You might think I am crazy suggesting this but trust me you will be surprised at what happens to you. If you can do as much as you can in one session. Get a cup a coffee and go for it. If needs be stop have a bite and go at it again. Then let me know what happened.

    In my work I meet with business owners on a frequent basis. People that I have never met before. The starting point after my intro once they are at ease and we have developed some rapport, is to get them to kick off and tell me their life story and how they got into the business they now find themselves in. For the majority (if they take the appointment) I know their business is like an anchor around their neck pulling them ever deeper into the abyss. Believe it or not for many or I would go so far as to say most of the small privately owned, business owners life is a living nightmare. You would not think it but if you can penetrate their hard veneer that they have so skillfully managed to weave over the years they are having a tougher time than anyone else around. They are incredibly lonely. They have all their assets tied up in the business and their wife no longer listens to them. If they could most of them would fire themselves.

    There are a few little demons that have been allowed to manifest themselves in their head over time. These guys come to the fore and rule their life. Mr. Fear and Anger, Mr. Self imposed Doubt and a few others that are too lengthy to explain here.

    What happens is over the years they become not any different to the person who works for them. In many cases you. By around 50 they will tell you they have seen it all. They now know what works and what does not and this is how it is.

    Now think about this rationally. Life is not the way it was 30 years ago.

    30 years ago we did not have the internet and smart phones with apps for all sorts.

    Why it was only 1989 (21 years ago)when the Soviet Union came crashing down and in my case I was thrust into the business of selling payphones and sold these critters to many of the former soviet block countries in Eastern Europe. Now consider, what were the odds of a South African company from a country which was as anti communist as could be, had sanctions imposed on it by the whole world, succeeding against organizations from Western Europe (namely the Swiss (Landis and Gyr, Danes ( Great Northern Telecom), French and British/German GEC PLESSY Telecoms consortium) that had been in existence since the telephone was invented and were 1000 times more powerful than we were had way more money and brighter engineers. To add to it we went cold calling because we did not know a soul. I remember my first meetings in Poland with the telecommunication authority (their Verizon or Bell) were like a CIA agent would have and were held on a clandestine basis in a Chicken sausage factory to disguise our presence. A month later I was sitting in the Minister of Telecommunications offices and 6 months later we were delivering field trial units and by the end of a year after that were signing deals and delivering thousand of payphones.

    Today 21 years later however payphones are practically obsolete.

    How can we say we have seen it all before and predict that this is how it will work out when the boss suggest we try something crazy.

    Nothing in the last 30 years has remained static not even my weight.

    The issue is you have to go back to taking the risks you took as a baby. When you fail you get up and go again. That’s what we tell ourselves in woodworking. Chuck has made the point in many ways so many times that if we never cut the wood and stare at it we will have it forever. But we won’t get to make anything that way. We have to dig down and get the excitement of the hunt that we used to get when we were having fun at work.

    I believe the exact same thing applies to all of us in the way we earn a living.

    Maybe in our case back in South Africa we so had our backs to the wall that we had nothing to loose. My first 6 week trip into the world marketing at around age 26/7 and selling with absolutely no selling or marketing training was a dictate from my boss. I was not even asked if I could or would manage to go. I was ordered to like you are in the military, and then loaded up with brochures that had been made only

    continued in next post

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