Removing Saw Guard-What do you think?

Allen Bookout

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Punta Gorda, Florida
Last year I built an overarm guard with dust removal for my Unisaw. It seemed like a good idea at the time. As time went on I used it less and less. For one thing there is not that much dust on top of the table anyway and for another it is just a kind of a pain in the side. A lot of the time it is in the way so I swing it out of the way. Then when I want it I swing it back and lock it, adjust it sideways if needed and lower the guard. A lot of piddiling around so it does not get done very often. Now I busted the side of it out whacking it with a 2x4 as can be seen from the photo below. That is what I get for not using lexan as any fool knows but I did not have any at the time. As you can see, I have my workbench behind the saw to use as an outfeed table. Sometimes I work between the bench and saw using both tops but the support arm for the guard is really in the way. It would be REALLY nice to have that area free of obstructions. Also the vertical support arm is in the way for a long crosscut. I cannot attach it to the ceiling as I need to move the saw sometimes.

Now we come to the point. I always use pushsticks or the gripper when my hand could get close to the blade and use featherboards when necessary. I use a quick removable splitter with anti kickback pawls. I use a crosscut sled when possible. I am seriously considering just junking the whole thing and not using a guard at all due to the way that I work. Do the most of you use a guard with your saw? What do the majority of you think about not using a guard at all?

Allen

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I just set up my new Unisaw and didn't even bother installing the guard that comes with it. I also use the Gripper and various push sticks and just work slowly and carefully. I think the guard is more of a hindrance than anything, IMHO.
 
I just set up my new Unisaw and didn't even bother installing the guard that comes with it. I also use the Gripper and various push sticks and just work slowly and carefully. I think the guard is more of a hindrance than anything, IMHO.

Bite your tongue!!! I am here to tell you that as a "Shop Teacher" for 30+ years I will never use a saw W/O a guard or some sort of guarding device. I prefer the safety factor even though there is a setup time involved. My fingers and other body parts are fare more valuable to me than the few seconds it costs to do a safe job.

You scare me!:eek: If you prefer to risk your own safety, that is your perogative but for Gods sake, don't post or brag about it. Keep your safeless practices to yourself. Please. For fear of sounding like a Safety Looney I can't help but express contempt for fellows who do not use safety devices and especially those who brag about how they defy common practices.

I am a practicing amputee (been w/o legs for 43 years) and I am here to tell you that it is no picnic to be missing body parts, save your skin and change your ways. I too, at one tme thought "I'm special, it will never happen to me" Bull Dump! It can and will happen.
 
Having used a Radial Arm Saw, with a fully exposed blade, for 30 years or so, I feel safer knowing exactly where the blade is, rather than where a guard is. I kept my table saw guard around for years, and never used it other than during setup. I have never mounted the guard on my fancy sliding tablesaw. It may be foolish, but I know where the blade is, and where my fingers are, and after 50+ years I can still count to 10.
 
You scare me!:eek: If you prefer to risk your own safety, that is your perogative but for Gods sake, don't post or brag about it. Keep your safeless practices to yourself. Please. For fear of sounding like a Safety Looney I can't help but express contempt for fellows who do not use safety devices and especially those who brag about how they defy common practices.

I am the one who ask for opinions and I wanted honest answers and that is what I am getting but I think that answers like this may distort any forthcoming post due to intimidation. I accept your outlook except for the personal attack.

I appreicate honest answers no matter what they may be. Keep them coming. Thanks!

Allen
 
I think Charlie and Matt have summed it up very well...and agree! For anyone, who would rather use a guard...by all means, do so! But after starting with a radial arm saw (as Charlie did), with no guard on...I much prefer to see the blade...not a guard. "Accidents" (by dictionary definition) do not happen with the saws. They are caused by a number of 'things'...a few of which are: lack of attention...being in a hurry...not thinking out your moves, before starting the cut...and just getting to cocky, and taking bad chances, etc.
Bill: in a teaching environment, I also would expect to see guards. However, teaching to...think...before any move, is much more important. Nuff said.
 
Allen,

I think this is a decision you need to make on your own. They're your digits when all is said and done.

I certainly don't want to tell you it's okay, because stuff can and will happen. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the Safety Looney, I'll confess that I don't use a guard on my saw. I never worked in a professional shop where there were guards on the saws. Our equivalent of OHSA never wrote anyone up for this. I replaced a worker who had 3 fingers amputated on the TS and it never ocurred to anyone to find the guard for the saw and put it on.

It's a calculated risk. It is foolhardy, but it goes on all the time.

I've never had a tablesaw injury, I'm glad to report. Unless something catastrophic happens to the saw, the saw will do what it was made to do. Accidents are mainly due to the unpredictable behaviour of the operator and the material being cut. And when it goes wrong, it does so damn fast that you probably won't even beware you've got a problem until the damage is done.

If you're sure that you want to work this way, think very hard about getting a SawStop. Whatever you might feel about their marketing techniques or legal tactics, they are offering a pretty good way to help your digits survive the 'oops' moment if/when it happens.

Talk to your wife if you have one, Allen. I'm sure she wouldn't mind your springing for an expensive saw if she thought it might save you from real carnage.

[No, I'm not affiliated with SawStop in any way]
 
I learned power tool use in high school woodshop, with no guards on either the TS or RAS. We also learned essentially the same as Matt's five steps above. Situational awareness.

I'm another TS3650 owner who installed the blade guard just long enough to discern that it would more likely cause an injury than prevent one. I use the Gripper or a sled for everything except large sheet goods (of which I cut very little). I've had several close calls with push sticks, so I tend to avoid them on the TS; the Gripper offers me much better control of the cut. With a guard on the TS, the Gripper is no longer an option, and I'd be back to push sticks. Ain't gonna happen. I also use the MJ splitters when appropriate.

If and when the funds are available, I'd love to have a SawStop. Primarily, because it's a superb cabinet saw. The safety features are just icing on the cake for me.
 
Talk to your wife if you have one, Allen. I'm sure she wouldn't mind your springing for an expensive saw if she thought it might save you from real carnage.

[No, I'm not affiliated with SawStop in any way]

I hope that you are kidding. You are trying to get me killed instead of just loosing some fingers. Seriously, I think that SawStop would be a great idea but I just cannot justify the expense unless I could write it off with a going business. Then maybe even a slider like Charlie has.

Now back to my real world.

Allen
 
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Accidents happen with guards and without. IMHO the most important factor is operator confidence and knowledge. If the guard is in the way and causing a distraction then it ought to go. If you are un-comfortable without a guard, then you need a different one that does not cause problems.

Funny thing similar to Matt's story, one of my miter saws is a delta 10", whose guard shattered on its third or fourth cut. I had been very careful to check it was functioning correctly, since a couple years before the very same thing had happened on the same model of delta saw at a shop where I worked. Both occassions were the biggest fright a saw has ever given me!

For what its worth, below is a picture of my standard method. Once the board is more than 6" or so, I dispense with the right hand push stick. The left hand stick acts as a splitter more than a push stick, and is surprisingly effective. I know I've posted this somewhere before, but maybe not here (I think my memory needs a push stick too).

John
 
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Bite your tongue!!!

Keep your safeless practices to yourself.

I can't help but express contempt for fellows who do not use safety devices and especially those who brag about how they defy common practices.

I disagree and an explanation why would have gotten across the same information. ;)

I use my blade guard when ever possible. I have the Shark Guard on my table saw.

DT
 
I'm in the NO guard camp. I have a Jet Contractor saw and when I got it I installed the factory splitter with Pauls, and blade cover. I took a test cut and protly lost the factory setup. I made my own ZCI and use finger boards and and a splitter and . For crosss cutting, dado, etc I use sleds.

I have been thinking about an overhead dust collectors but am having second thoughts because I think it might get in the way and make the saw less safe.

JMHO
 
You asked for honest input...so here it is. I didn't have a guard on my previous Contractors saw, and there won't be one on my Unisaw.

All other guards on other machines are in place.
 
"Now we come to the point. I always use push sticks or the gripper when my hand could get close to the blade and use feather boards when necessary. I use a quick removable splitter with anti kickback pawls. I use a crosscut sled when possible."

The above points that Allen brings up are what may well be his saving grace in protecting him from injury.

I also use Grippers, feather boards,shop built push shoes & the delta removable splitter which I plan on making more inserts for short ones that can be used with my Grippers. I don't like push sticks because they are usually only pushing at the back edge of the material being pushed through the saw & not holding the material down unless you are using a feather board down onto the material from the fence.

As well as a guard I made that I partially patterned after Delta's guard. It is a combination of shop built & Exaktor parts. The Exaktor while it is a guard & sucks up dust it just mostly sucks.Big clumsy hard to see into even with a light installed inside it.

With the guard I now have I can have all or any part of it I want or none at all. It moves up out of the way high enough to work around & even use my big sled under. My bench/off feed table is right behind the saw it for the most part it is out of the way.
I figure a guard has to help remind you about the danger, be adjustable & removable in an easy way. I don't have to remove mine just tip it up out of the way.

Like Allen I feel that with a ZCI there isn't enough dust to worry about dust collection at the saw top. If I cut MDF I'll use my mask.
 

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FWIW,
I started out woodworking in a friend's shop who had a venerable 9" craftsman contractor's saw.(see old reliable below) Not a benchtop, but a relatively underpowered belt driven saw. It never had a guard or a splitter on it and I was Extremely aware of the blade location on each and every cut I made. Aware to the point where I was not comfortable with using the tablesaw much at all. After a year or so I purchased a Ridgid 3612, which was the precursor to the 3650, and the guard is the same on both models. Depending upon which type of cut I'm doing, I will install, adjust and use the splitter and guard. I can see why some may not choose to make those adustments. but I will continue to use my guard whenever I can. The Ridgid's splitter is such that cuts narrower than 2" make a normal push stick unsafe. I've taken to using shop built/cut 'L' shaped push sticks, (see attached) and returning to the 'extreme awareness' of the blade (Not that I was not conscious of it when using the splitter/guard assy).

When I can afford a cabinet saw, I will do my best to use or install a guard which I feel comfortable with. For now I'm making do with the Ridgid's problem ridden guard and splitter.

My saw is in storage right now, and I'm sharing a friend's garage shop for building my kitchen cabinets, using his Delta CS (don't know the model number off hand). He chooses not to have the guard or splitter installed. We recently were ripping some maple to width, and as Maple is wont to do, we had some pretty spectacular reaction wood. He learned a lot from that one session, and will be installing a splitter asap.

To sum up,
I'm personally more comfortable with a guard than without. I use push sticks and featherboards whenever I can. Even when using the guard, I do my utmost to respect the tool and use it as safely as i can. I also have a hefty crosscut sled, though I tend to use a CMS for cutting to length. A new sled is in the plans, however, smaller and lighter than my current behemoth, which will handle 24" deep panels
 

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That is quite a design Bart! Better than anything else that I have seen. Ever thought about going commerical with it?

I made a short splitter that I use with my Gripper that attaches just like my Delta quick removable splitter so I just loosen the nut, slide out the Delta and slide in the short one. I made it out of aluminum because it was easy to cut and would not rust. It seems to be strong enough as I made it for a full kerf blade.
 
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Slightly redundant post here. I don't use a guard. My feelings to the guard that came with the saw are that it is more unsafe than going guardless. When I use the saw there is never a moment when i can't see the full blade, no body part ever goes between my eyes and the blade. 100% percent concentration when using the tool is a must at all times, that is where people mess up (IMHO).

Also, using the splitter really helps me with my confidence in the tool. The only accident I had with teh TS was kick back, but since then I purchased the splitter, and use it of course.
 
No guard here.

I did not even install the guard that came with my General 650. I do have a Micro Jig Splitter installed and use a lot of different push sticks, feather boards, and a GRR-Ripper system. But, the most important thing that I do is to think through every cut before I make it.

The one safety device that I don't have on my saw that I really wish were on it is a Riving Knife. If I were buying a new table saw right now, I would probably hold out for one with a Riving Knife.
 
Allen,

I use my guard and splitter unless I can't. I have an overarm guard and now, a Delta drop-in splitter on my JTAS. I've also had the Biese splitter which I liked better.

Anyway, I always use push sticks, GRR-Rippers and never get my fingers close to the blade but still I use the guard and splitter,

Safety devices aren't there for when you do everything right, they're there for when things go wrong and I'll put up with the inconvenience.

By the way, I get a lot of top side dust, especially when trimming a board.
 
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