Blumb Hinge Questions....

Darren Wright said:

Well, You'd better get some new carving chisels too. What's a cigar store without a cigar store indian?

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Maybe you can get Toni to carve one for ya...

The parliament hinges look pretty, and look durable, but you were worried about the weight of the door, and you are now down to four screws into the side of a face frame, holding the entire weight (and torque of the open door), which is my concern.

The thing I like about the euro style construction is that it gives you extra space within the cabinet (the opening is wider). Then, the hinges mount firmly against the side of the cabinet (using three screws spread apart if desired, but mostly a wider base against the cabinet). The euro hinges can be self closing or soft closing, and are adjustable (more and more important as you get to more hinges). (A separate catch would be required for the parliament hinges)

I do a lot of euro hinges, so I got a carbide 35mm drill, but any 35mm or 1 3/8 inch Forstner bit will do the job, and a drill press is virtually necessary.

The more I think about this the more my brain hurts

OK, I do think that the doors should be overlayed, I can run a piece of weather stripping to seal them when closed, so this would be a good thing, yes when they are opened I loose a lot of the humidity, but that is just part of the way a commercial display cabinet works. I will have a fairly large humidification device with two fans to get things back to normal ASAP when the doors close.

I'm now thinking that >> these << look best, I like the 120 degree opening, gives me more room when the doors are open.


For the Overlay....


... I'm thinking 3/4" would be good, anyone see a problem with that? ???

I will make faceframe cabinets. I'll use the tall gang lock to lock the top cabinet doors, and an overlap of the two doors to keep both locked (if that makes sense).

Going with 4 hinges on each door on top, and of course two on each door on the bottom.

I really have to get this done, so I need to order this stuff soon, what do you think of my plan now?

One other concern here, Stu. This will be a commercial use cabinet. How many times a day will it be opened and closed (as compared to a kitchen cabinet at home)? I'd be very concerned about durability over the long haul.

Have you considered piano hinge? Maybe not elegant, but definitely more durable.

Stuart Ablett said:

The more I think about this the more my brain hurts

OK, I do think that the doors should be overlayed, I can run a piece of weather stripping to seal them when closed, so this would be a good thing, yes when they are opened I loose a lot of the humidity, but that is just part of the way a commercial display cabinet works. I will have a fairly large humidification device with two fans to get things back to normal ASAP when the doors close.

I'm now thinking that >> these << look best, I like the 120 degree opening, gives me more room when the doors are open.

For the Overlay....

... I'm thinking 3/4" would be good, anyone see a problem with that? ???

I will make faceframe cabinets. I'll use the tall gang lock to lock the top cabinet doors, and an overlap of the two doors to keep both locked (if that makes sense).

Going with 4 hinges on each door on top, and of course two on each door on the bottom.

I really have to get this done, so I need to order this stuff soon, what do you think of my plan now?

Click to expand...

Ok Stu I hate to throw this out there in regards to those hinges, but two things I have noticed with those. One is that with the constant opening and closing of them and only the two screws in the frame it does tend to want to pull the hinge off the frame or loosen the screws till they fail. The other is that the hing does stick out a bit on the inside and with a glass panel in the door the back side of the hinge may be more visable. Also another point to make in regards to this is the humidity of a humidor being around 68-72% humidity how will the metal in the hinges react to this? I would think Brass or stainless stell would be something more durable to use.

If these get used so much the doors fall off, I'll be very happy

They might get opened once a day, I hope that goes up, but the demand is not that big for cigars. If these get used half as much as kitchen cabinets in a regular home, I'll be very surprised!

Thanks for all the info and advice!!

Stu, I think your plan sounds reasonable. I've made my share of raised panel cabinet doors that are over sized and not had a problem with the euro/ff hinges I've installed. On a similar sized project, I only used 3 hinges per door and have not had a problem in 10 years they've been in use and these doors get opened easily a couple of dozen times per day.

Also, I don't think it matters how much you overlay the door other than appearance.

Stuart Ablett said:

The more I think about this the more my brain hurts
...

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See my web page on euro hinges for wooden cabinets at
www.solowoodworker.com/wood/hinges.html

Stuart Ablett said:

...
I'm now thinking that >> these << look best, I like the 120 degree opening, gives me more room when the doors are open.

For the Overlay....

... I'm thinking 3/4" would be good, anyone see a problem with that? ???
...

Click to expand...

The Blum 120 degree clip top hinges are the closest thing to an industry standard - The full overlay costs 1.55 each at my lumber yard, plus .69 for the most common mounting clip for the name brand products.

In an euro style cabinet the most common overlay is 19 mm or 3/4 inch, equal to the thickness of the cabinet side. Just drop the face frame, and you have the door overlay hiding the edge of the plywood. Since there is no wear on the edge, iron on edge banding is ample. It really is that simple, but (like most people) the first time you build a cabinet without a face frame it is scary.

Stuart Ablett said:

...

I will make faceframe cabinets. I'll use the tall gang lock to lock the top cabinet doors, and an overlap of the two doors to keep both locked (if that makes sense).
...

Click to expand...

There is no reason you cannot put a brace at the top of the cabinet, and something at the bottom, similar to a face frame, to give you a place to put the locking mechanism.

Stuart Ablett said:

...
I really have to get this done, so I need to order this stuff soon, what do you think of my plan now?

Click to expand...

I won't let go of the idea that the face frame is counter-productive, but if you insist on face frames, it is still a pretty good plan.

Note that if you are going to use weather stripping, you cannot use piano hinges (or parliament hinges) since you need the adjustability of the euro hinges to compensate for the stripping as it compresses over time.

A friend who builds wine cellars and is trying to get a prefab under the counter model found he had to use the magnetic refrigerator seals around the door to keep a good seal.

Charlie, thanks for the info, your site has lots of it!

The reason I want to go with face frames is for strength in the cabinet, the plywood I'm using is this "Shina" stuff, it has a very thin veneer of Shina wood then one ply of thicker wood and the core is made up of a solid piece. I think this stuff is called "Lumber Core".

I don't very much like this stuff, but it is all I can get around here, and trust me, I've tried to get other stuff, not available, or if it is, the price is 5 or 6 times, which is really stupid.

The Shina Lumber Core plywood that I'm using is 18mm so just under 3/4" I'm concerned that with the long tall cabinet without a face frame for strength, the cabinet could, over time, bulge out in the middle, if that makes sense.

The face frames would provide the rigidity needed on the front face of the cabinet, I could be wrong about that, but I just worry it would not hold up

I snapped some pics of the stuff I'm working with right now....



I just do not trust the strength of the side panels without a face frame to beef up the front edge.

Wow. If the lumber core were good, I would say you are worrying too much, but that looks like ... bad stuff. A butt joint is bad enough but it looks like some of them don't even touch.

Maybe the best solution would be two layers of 9 or 12 mm (or whatever you can get) laminated together... or even two layers of 18 mm. And if you use a hard-joint glue, like plastic resin, that is commonly used in veneering, that may improve the moisture seal.

Stu that lumber core ply is ok. Don't worry about the voids as thats how the lumber I've used in various shops in different parts of the country for the past 3o years looks like when you cut it. If you want to see some bad voids in plywood just check out some of the domestic plywood I've been cutting lately. Those voids make the grand canyon look like a pot hole and you wishing you had bought the imported plywood.