can anyone do anything right?

Frank Fusco

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12,782
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas
We have three large picture windows in our living room area. A couple years ago one of them lost it's seal and I had to have it replaced. The local company I called seemed very inept at handling the order. Required multiple calls to get anything done.
A couple months ago another went bad. I called the same company, and others, for estimate. First one had the best price. After call upon call they finally came today to install the new window. Had old one out then learned the replacement was wrong size. :pullhair:
Now, they need to reorder and get the correct glass. I'm going to try to get a break on price or some kind of extra for my money. I think I'll ask for free Low E.
This is an old company with a good reputation but they don't seem to have an up to date management plan. Dealing with them is like trying to figure out who's on first. :(
 
Frank usually if the company screws up I will also ask for a discount. If they do not comply I let them know the Review I will write will not be favorable. Sometimes that gets there attention.
 
Just a thought.
Yes they messed up and bought you the wrong window. They bought and paid for that window. Yes there is some mark up on it to you. Now they have to buy another window for your house and put the wrong size one in there shop. Now they will have paid for that window twice. The mark up does not cover buying a second window. And they still have to put it in.
So lets say for numbers sake that the window was 200 to them and they charged you 300. They charged you another 100 to install it. For a total of 400 for the job.
So the first window cost they 200 and the installer cost them 50 for the first trip. They stood to make. 150.
So now they have the first window at 200 the first install trip at 50 and the second window at 200 and the second install at 50. they are into your job for 500. That's just 100 over what they are charging you. So how much of a break do you think would be justifiable?
Yes they will put that window out in there miss order bin and dump it at half price. I'm guessing that will take 2 to 3 years before it sells.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get something for your inconvenience or trying to start anything. Just looking at the other side of the coin.:thumb::thumb::thumb::rofl::rofl:
 
Just a thought.
Yes they messed up and bought you the wrong window. They bought and paid for that window. Yes there is some mark up on it to you. Now they have to buy another window for your house and put the wrong size one in there shop. Now they will have paid for that window twice. The mark up does not cover buying a second window. And they still have to put it in.
So lets say for numbers sake that the window was 200 to them and they charged you 300. They charged you another 100 to install it. For a total of 400 for the job.
So the first window cost they 200 and the installer cost them 50 for the first trip. They stood to make. 150.
So now they have the first window at 200 the first install trip at 50 and the second window at 200 and the second install at 50. they are into your job for 500. That's just 100 over what they are charging you. So how much of a break do you think would be justifiable?
Yes they will put that window out in there miss order bin and dump it at half price. I'm guessing that will take 2 to 3 years before it sells.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get something for your inconvenience or trying to start anything. Just looking at the other side of the coin.:thumb::thumb::thumb::rofl::rofl:

I have been on the other side of the coin and know it can be a tough swallow.
But, my window has lost it's seal and insulating abilities, I have lost money in the form of heat loss while waiting for them to do get in motion. I have spent hours on the phone reminding this poorly managed business to: come measure for a quote; call me with the quote; schedule the installation, at least twice, then this.
They owe me.
 
frank, is this the same company that put the bad window in some time ago? if so then was there a warranty on the bad window? if there was then the window company should be the one getting some bad press not the installation company..but all company's have bad products that get threw quality control...so i do not see where the loss is that great on your part,, yu wil have a new window and it will fit the opening..sometimes the measure makes a number wrong or a person misreads the numbers.. many ways to cause this inconvenience..
 
frank, is this the same company that put the bad window in some time ago? if so then was there a warranty on the bad window? if there was then the window company should be the one getting some bad press not the installation company..but all company's have bad products that get threw quality control...so i do not see where the loss is that great on your part,, yu wil have a new window and it will fit the opening..sometimes the measure makes a number wrong or a person misreads the numbers.. many ways to cause this inconvenience..

Yep, same company. They replaced the bad one with no argument. Some confusion when ordering but that is normal for them. The window was very dirty when they installed it. And it is on a second story level. I had to buy a special 20' long pole thingy to clean it.
BTW, I have a theory why this company is so inefficiently managed. Until recently they were the only glass company in the region, maybe a ten county area. We were experiencing a lot of growth, with new houses, businesses, etc. They had no competition. If you wanted glass or special windows you had to do business with them. If you had to wait, you waited. They had no reason to get efficient. Now they have competition and are still in the scribbled note era. If they go out of business they will not have a clue about what happened. Nice people but not keeping up with the times.
 
I called the same company, and others, for estimate. First one had the best price. After call upon call they finally came today to install the new window. Had old one out then learned the replacement was wrong size. :pullhair:

Lowest bid rarely works out to be the best bid........just sayin':D Good luck getting it fixed right.
 
more window problems

Owner of the glass company called yesterday. Seems the company that manufacturers the glass will not guarantee a 5/16" thick double pane glass anymore. Says it flexes too easily. :huh: That's what he sez. I would have thought it was the glass that flexed, not the space in between. But, I'm not a glass expert, wadda I know? :dunno:
So, he is coming again today to do another measure. I have lost track, third or fourth time the window has been measured.
He wants to put in a 3/8" or 1/2" thick window. It will look ugly but I have no choice. I believe I will put a cap moulding around it to hide the protruding part.
I know I only have to worry about my own situation. But, being me, I do wonder of other customers get irked with this kind of time wasting folderra. And, for contractors, it is a time and money wasting inefficiency.
Found out a store in town owned by a friend had his drive up window damaged recently in a burglary attempt. He is experiencing same kind of inefficiency with the same company. They have to keep coming back to fix, change, finish, redo, etc.
 
Not being to savy as to costs an window design, etc... But I wonder why Knot consider Total Replacement... What with Energy saving Tax credits, Better Energy Saving qualities of the whole new window. and the ease of install, might have been a small percentage higher but better in the long run.

Too late now but would have negated dealing with incompitence on this level. Incompitence on a new level.

"Last week I learned to swim in the Rio Grand, Today I install windows" :eek:
 
Not being to savy as to costs an window design, etc... But I wonder why Knot consider Total Replacement... What with Energy saving Tax credits, Better Energy Saving qualities of the whole new window. and the ease of install, might have been a small percentage higher but better in the long run.

Too late now but would have negated dealing with incompitence on this level. Incompitence on a new level.

"Last week I learned to swim in the Rio Grand, Today I install windows" :eek:

Not too late. He is still in the measuring stage. I'll ask.
 
If I keep this up I'll be sermonizing. :eek:
Back to my original question: Can't anybody do anything right?
I sat down to pay some bills. In the stack are two from a furnace repair company in town. They have been in business for a long time. I had two from them. One for service in June of 2010. The other more recently.
On both was a tax charge I recognized as the amount for people living in the city, I'm out in the county. I called the company and the girl was completely ignorant of this situation. I told her I didn't, and wouldn't, pay city taxes. (I didn't say it, but I know it is illegal to tax county folks at city rates.) She doesn't even know the county rate but said she would try to find out and re-bill me. Now, the State sends a booklet to businesses that charge sales tax and all the rates are in there.
They do good work, but, again, I have to wonder how, with such inefficiency that stay in business.
 
Hi Frank et all. Cynthia's hubby here. Gotta compliment you all on a terrific forum.........much more civil and better run than my hillbilly bluegrass music list.

Anyways; here's some ramblings that will hopefully shed some light on the glass replacement struggle:

Firstly, in the glass biz, double paned glass is referred to as a "sealed unit" or insulating glass unit; and the term window refers to the frame. The industry standard provides for a 10 year guarantee against loss of seal which leads to fogging.

Each unit has a manufacturing date stamped on the spacer bar which separates the inboard and outboard lights (panes) of glass. If the date stamp falls within 10 years of when the unit failed, a replacement is provided at no charge, and you pay only the labor.

Re Frank's post about the manufacturerer no longer guaranteeing 5/16" thick double paned glass, and wanting to put in 3/8" or 1/2" window: Those dimensions refer to the thickness of the spacer bars, and consequently the "airspace" between the two lights. U&nless the overall size of the unit is quite small, yes, the glass will deflect under windload to guarantee the integrity of the seal. Generally speaking, the wider the air space, the better the insulating qualities.

When replacing a 5/16" A.S. sealed unit with a wider 3/8" or 1/2" one, the mouldings, or "stops" that hold the glass in need to be changed. There are all kinds of extrusions available to accomplis this, usually without compromising the window's appearance.

And finally; about Chuck's comment about the glass company possibly using the unit they ordered wrong size in thgeir shop: True; they may find that type of use for it; but more likely it will go in their dumpster. Even the best of of the glass outfits, and especially the commercial glazing contractors misorder all kinds of sealed units. In the old days, they used to cut them apart, remove spacer bars and the sealant from the perimiters, and use the single lights somewhere. No one does that anymore......too expensive and not worth the trouble. Point is that if anyone is building anything where you can frame your openings to suit these mis-ordered units, they will literally give thyem away rather than pay the dumping fees. The commercial guys usually have lots of them; often super expensisive high-end units with "low-e" and other coatings, tinted or reflective glass, etc. Best of all, they usually have a bunch the same size.

Now; my 56 Chevy is calling so off to my shop.

Cheers,
Brian
 
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