USA Today Article about Table Saw Safety

It (probably) makes financial sense in a business with employees. If my business were to grow and had employees using a table saw I would give it serious consideration.

Of course there are still many other machines in the shop that can do the same damage.

BUT I think this is were most people that have thought this through are, is that they are afraid (know) that if the g'ment gets involved it will be required every saw sold. I should have the right to make the choice if I want it and not be forced into it. My personal shop should be my personal shop.

Maybe I should start hoarding a few Unisaws and PM-66's?
 
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Three hands saved is a powerful statement. You can understand why shops put in a SawStop. Let's say each cartridge/blade combination costs $200. That's extremely cheap compared to the cost of insurance, the shut down time after the accident, and the OSHA reports.

I'm sure the owner pays the costs with a smile, and the people whose hands were saved smile, also.

That's a wonderful endorsement - thanks for sharing.

Mike

actually, it's not an endorsement of any kind. not that i would wish injuries on anyone. we talked about the misfires, and he said that they were such oddities, that sawstop wanted the cartridges back so they could download the data. the wood was dry. the only thing he could think of is something in the wood itself (mineral deposits, iron) that would change the conductivity. as we know, anything that changes the conductivity fires the cartridge.
 
Hi folks,

I'm all for table saw safety. What burns me up is the Inventor/Manufacturer of a product trying to get the government to REQUIRE that HIS product be used on ALL table saws. That's ridiculous, and should be illegal.

Bob
 
Hi folks,

I'm all for table saw safety. What burns me up is the Inventor/Manufacturer of a product trying to get the government to REQUIRE that HIS product be used on ALL table saws. That's ridiculous, and should be illegal.

Bob

if i remember correctly, don't we have a whole slew of anti-trust, and anti-monoply laws for just this sort of thing?
 
You should see Sharon's stash of incandescant bulbs...

That's cuz those new fangled bulbs almost burned our bay area house down. Nothing like walking out into the garage and seeing smoke pouring out of the new fangled light bulbs :confused::bonkers: Man, Wal*Mart is running out of the old ones...better buy up the last few. I'll be going into the black market business for them soon.

Brent only gave me the skinny on this one. Some guy has a patent he's trying to push through. Make everyone pay more so he can make a fortune. I think that's what lobbyist's do.

My inexperienced, under-educated position is that if you depend on being perfectly safe, operating an extremely dangerous machine...then, maybe you should take up knitting instead. Oops, maybe you'll poke your eye out. Alternative...read the directions and take it VERY seriously.

Feel free to delete...
 
Hi folks,

I'm all for table saw safety. What burns me up is the Inventor/Manufacturer of a product trying to get the government to REQUIRE that HIS product be used on ALL table saws. That's ridiculous, and should be illegal.

Bob
Trying to get your patent included in some specification is an old and honored tradition. I participated in the setting of modem standards during my career. There were lots of patents that were included in the standards. All we required is that the company sign an agreement that the patents would be licensed "freely and reasonably", meaning licensing to all comers at a rate that was reasonable. Reasonable was never defined, however.

Effectively, what this did was eliminate any small companies from the market. The big companies all had patents and we would cross license each other (I won't sue you if you don't sue me). But a small company with no patents would be at a tremendous disadvantage because they'd have to pay for every patent included.

So what Gass did was the exactly what happens in many fields every day.

Mike
 
That's cuz those new fangled bulbs almost burned our bay area house down. Nothing like walking out into the garage and seeing smoke pouring out of the new fangled light bulbs :confused::bonkers: Man, Wal*Mart is running out of the old ones...better buy up the last few. I'll be going into the black market business for them soon.

Brent only gave me the skinny on this one. Some guy has a patent he's trying to push through. Make everyone pay more so he can make a fortune. I think that's what lobbyist's do.

My inexperienced, under-educated position is that if you depend on being perfectly safe, operating an extremely dangerous machine...then, maybe you should take up knitting instead. Oops, maybe you'll poke your eye out. Alternative...read the directions and take it VERY seriously.

Feel free to delete...

I like this.
 
Its very interesting this debate.

I think Mike hits on a point we all need to consider in this process.

1) Advancement of an industry and safety.

2) Patents.

In my time i have also had people participate in bodies that essentially have set new standards for kit i was manufacturing. At times some of those standards get put in place in manner where one can only view them as trade barriers to be overcome. Others not. Simply put consider the old days before the introduction of RFI suppression. Mom would put the vacuum cleaner on and the associated noise on the TV or radio would be the cause of an argument. Today that is a big part of the electrical regs applicable to sell a product in another market. Why, simply because there are components involved that cost yet add nothing to the functionality of the item without the reg forcing inclusion. So in my view the guy lobbying etc is part of our free market and the benefits have to be weighed.

As for the patent side one has to consider what patents do and are about. Back to the intent.
The intent is to encourage innovation and the disclosure of such innovation. The principle being that the price for such disclosure is that you get to secure patent rights for a period. The basis being that granting you exclusivity to your use of your intellectual property while sharing it is of benefit to society. Why? Because others get given a head start in being shown the direction of thought that you have originated from and to. This allows them to leap on it and try to advance the "art" further. Hence progress for all.
There is one thing that few are aware of. This exclusivity does not permit monopoly. You are expected to be willing to licence the use of your know how to all at a reasonable price.

The issue here comes at what that is and that is sometimes where the courts get involved. If you own the patent rights it is within the power of the court to force you to grant use to someone else if you cannot amicably settle on a reasonable price. The court can even be drawn into establishing that price. The price is most often a royalty.

In this case though we are dealing with a situation where the small fish is of little threat to the big fish. For were the big fish feeling the pain sufficiently the big fish would be forcing the issue of access to the patent technology at a decent price.

This is not the case and hence the reason I would presume that the little fish has resorted to using standard enhancement to force their hand.

Its free market practice.

Think about all the guys that should have been given proper protection from asbestos back in the day. Had the safety standard existed back in the day then maybe a whole bunch of people would be breathing easier.

Somewhere though it comes down to would you rather have a job or breath easy and then its up to the choice of the individual i guess. :dunno:

The thing about patents is that normally the inovation centers around a feature that would economically enhance the product in a no brainer kind of way. In this case the argument only applies if one considers Mikes comment back to Dan about the merits of the saving of 3 hands and the associated costs and ramifications (and maybe we should really list them because its huge way more than what we see immediately) of the injury to three hands. One would think this is a no brainer.

One would also think that with the numbers that have already taken up the purchase of this product that the large guys would be chomping at the bit to get their hands on the technology and if the costs being charged by the patent holder are too exhorbitant that the large fish would be using their corporate lawyers to use the courts to extract a more economically viable price. But that dont seem to be the case here so the patent holder has been left with little recouse but to seek enhancement of the regulations through lobbying.

I would surely think though that if the regulation was enhanced and as a result all saws were modified to recieve this kind of technology that the price per unit would drop significantly with the kind of volume increase that would prevail. That would surely make the cost premium a lot less to bear and the econimic benefit overall huge.

Its time we all realize that insurance premiums dont mean we can claim at no cost. It merely means we are paying a price that the insurance actuarys asses is a viable one for the risk. But we are paying either way.

Surely one would expect that the insurance premium in a shop that has factored in the aspect and cost of using technology of this kind would see a decline indicative of the reduced risk and the evidence to support this argument is there in what Dan said.

Ok thats the lawyer in me out. :D:rofl::rofl: my 2 cents.
 
Well the big verses little is why I will probably never own anything by Oneida. They sued Clear View to stop them producing a product that competed with their little dust deputy. Even though Clear View had been in the market well ahead of them. I am reasonably sure Oneida knew the challenge would never stand up I am just as sure they knew they had deeper pockets than Clear View. So even though Clear View felt sure they were right they didn't pursue making the small unit. At the price they were charging I doubt that they would have made a dent in Oneida sales.
 
As individuals, it is interesting to read/hear the internal reasons for making specific decisions on purchasing items. The oneida/clear vue I hadn't heard before. Very interesting. I appreciate being able to make the decision and based on my available money, the risk I have to incur.
 
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