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Even all their money......

allen levine said:
just had a rotten day today.

but I think Id have to put alot of blame on the contractor for not really letting the person know no matter how much pull their money has, their money might not be able to defy gravity, and thats something that could later on be a problem.
What? the future homeowner says? The contractor should answer, well, even with an expensive system , there might not be a guarantee that one day youll be dining and you will be ankle deep in your own poop.
I think even a common, dumb, moronic yankee would understand that noone likes to eat wheres theres poop.

This is why there are reality shows like Holmes on homes. Seems its so common the horrific jobs contractors do are always in need of correction.
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I would agree in principal, but here is what happens, at least if you tell them up front.

The next bidder comes along and when they ask about the downside that you explained to them indepth, he just flat lies and tells them that can not happen with his system, so you lose a job.

I have always been taught to be honest, and as a contractor I always bring up any potential problems that I see with say a roof design for example. The next bidder says, " Oh, Larry is full of crap, we can do that with no problem whatsoever!" or the architect gets insulted and keeps me out of the bidding. I look like an idiot, until a few years down the road when there is a problem, but at that point the job is done, and I didn't make any money. I love it when they call me to fix the problem......

I have learned the hard way to keep my mouth shut. You are giving the average homeowner way too much credit.

The other Larry

As much as I hate to, I keep my mouth shut these days
 
Larry Edgerton said:
I would agree in principal, but here is what happens, at least if you tell them up front.

The next bidder comes along and when they ask about the downside that you explained to them indepth, he just flat lies and tells them that can not happen with his system, so you lose a job.

I have always been taught to be honest, and as a contractor I always bring up any potential problems that I see with say a roof design for example. The next bidder says, " Oh, Larry is full of crap, we can do that with no problem whatsoever!" or the architect gets insulted and keeps me out of the bidding. I look like an idiot, until a few years down the road when there is a problem, but at that point the job is done, and I didn't make any money. I love it when they call me to fix the problem......

I have learned the hard way to keep my mouth shut. You are giving the average homeowner way too much credit.

The other Larry

As much as I hate to, I keep my mouth shut these days
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Are you saying that you don't tell a prospective customer that his plans carry risks, in order to get the work?
 
ken werner said:
Are you saying that you don't tell a prospective customer that his plans carry risks, in order to get the work?
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ABSOLUTELY!

Did you read my post?

When the contract is signed, with a change order clause in place, then I will bring it up. Until then I am keeping my mouth shut. I would say that about 75% of the time bringing up problems I see in the plans at that stage bites me in the heiney. So I don't do it.

So whats better, that I get the contract, and correct the problem in due course, or some hack that didn't even see the problem in the first place gets it and builds it like the print shows and the homeowner has to deal with it later, usually at their own expense?

I think you are overestimating the intelligence of many homeowners, and the integrity of many builders. I do my job very well, but I still have to land the contract to make the corrections. When I have contract in hand I will deal with it then.

I live in one of the most economically challanged areas of the country. Last year the three countys around me were the three worst in the USA. Things have not gotten any better here, just worse a few other places. Competition is cut throut. Last year in my county, by June first, there were 4 building permits issued. Two were modulars. There are 283 licenced builders in my area, and a whole lot more that are not licenced. Doesn't leave much to go around. After I pulled a permit last year, within a week ten other builders had called the homeowner trying to get the job out from under me. The permits are a matter of public record, so there is nothing I can do about that.

So ya, I tell them later.....
 
Yes Larry, I read your post, I just wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand you.

If that was my business practice -and it wouldn't be - I certainly would not announce it on the internet.
 
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Actually Ken, we don't disagree.

As I said, I used to bring these things up but people don't want to hear the truth about their design, and they will punish you for telling the truth by doing business with someone who is willing to blow smoke up their dress.

Is this the way I want to play it? NO! It is survival, and in the end it is all exactly the same, the problem is corrected, and the cost to the customer is exactly that same as if I had told them earlier. The difference is I have the job.

I don't like the dancing I have to do to get work, and in fact have grown to hate my job as a general contractor. Not because I do not like the work, but the politics and the paperwork drive me nuts. But I'm 55 and have invested way too much money in this business, and change comes hard. I hope to be doing just commission work in the shop in the next couple of years, but I have to be debt free before I make that jump. One more good house and I am there, and I can't wait.
 
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Larry Edgerton said:
I don't like the dancing I have to do to get work, and in fact have grown to hate my job as a general contractor. Not because I do not like the work, but the politics and the paperwork drive me nuts. But I'm 55 and have invested way too much money in this business, and change comes hard. I hope to be doing just commission work in the shop in the next couple of years, but I have to be debt free before I make that jump. One more good house and I am there, and I can't wait.
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I hear you there Larry, and I wish you well. Sounds like a good goal, and looks like you're most of the way to it.
 
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