Tools, how good do they need to be?

Bill Satko

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Methow Valley
A Harbor Freight just opened up here in Bellingham. I have never been to one. I have seen on the internet where some people have waxed poetically about the experience. If I was to write a poem about it, it's tone would be similar to a dirge. I just don't see the appeal of such cheap tools, but I suspect they fill a demand. It got me to wondering when is cheap good enough? In my mind, cheap would only be the choice if I believe it was going to be destroyed or harmed in such a manner that I would be disposing of it after a short use.

I understand that cheap tools and cheap products have provided more of an opportunity to more people to have such tools or products. The alternative before the advent of such cheap products was fewer purchases as people saved up their money.

As I get older, and I am not sure it is because of wisdom or senility, I find myself buying quality even if it means doing without until I can afford it. I don't think it is the "right" way, just the right way for me.

I just want to mention that I went to Harbor Freight a little out of curiosity, but also to procure some Evap-o-rust. It is hard to find around here.

Now that I have stirred things up, I think I will go down to the shop and make some ash curlies. Have a good day!
 
I always try to remember that a big price tag doesn't equal big quality or big enjoyment.
 
I have a lot of HF tools that still perform flawlessly after years of service. You'd have a fight on your hands if you'd try to take away My Harbor Freight! :thumb:
 
An observation; For someone who rarely does certain things like hone an engine block or tile a sink top, a Harbor Freight tool will get them through. It would make more sense to go to a reputable yard and rent a quality tool but, for the shade tree mechanic who will take 2 months to hone all 8 cylinders, this is not a good option. I too have half a dozen noisy, inaccurate HF tools that I picked up to get through a job . . . now they just won't die (although they act like it every time I use them) :D
 
As we discussed before, some tools are good to get through HF....such as...an angle grinder, dust collector, buffer, bench grinders, etc. But when it comes to tools that get used everyday like a table saw, band saw, etc....I bank on Grizzly, delta, etc
 
Cheap tools have a time and a place.
If I'm 2 hours away from home and forgot my skill saw I need the saw to do the job I just drove 2 hours to do. My options are
1 Don't do the job until tomorrow and bring the saw with me.
2 Drive home and get the saw.
3 Stop and get a cheap saw and hope it lasts long enough to get the job done.
9 out of 10 I'll pick number 3
I need a 1/2" wrench 2" long and bent at a 90. My options are
1 grab the $90 snap-on wrench, heat it up and bend a 90 in it a half inch from the end.
2 Grab the harbor freight 2 dollar wrench, heat it up and bend a 90 in it.
Yup going with number 2
So ya see there is a time and place for those cheap tools.:thumb:
 
Things like an extension cord and an ice pick are hard to screw up. The compressed air fittings are also cheap, and I thought they would be hard to screw up, but after replacing several couplings I bought a good one elsewhere. I bought a knock-off spray gun... the $35 "HF" looked identical to the "real" $100 one but the atomization isn't as good, and the cheap pressure reducer works but is ugly compared to the one from Porter Cable. The $7 HF dial indicator works great for what I need, and when their magnetic holders are on sale, they are hard to beat - I bought several to use as "switchable" magnets on jigs. I bought some HF sandpaper... no worry about how long it lasts, one pass, then discard. I use it as "non-slip" on jigs. The four wheel furniture dollies are regularly the same price as the sale price from the big box, and occasionally go on sale. The furniture blankets are cheap, but be careful... a sharp corner will wear a hole in no time.

So, do I like Harbor Freight. Yes. Do I expect to get good tools there? No. They are good at returns - probably 20% of what I buy dies fast enough that I take it back for a no-question refund.
 
True, a lot of the stuff there can be junk.

But there are also some items there that work well.

Think of the DC that's been a recent topic of conversation here. It works quite well for more than a few folks.

I've got their variable speed oscillating multi tool. It runs smooth and works like a champ.

I've bought a cheap sledge and an anvil from them. They work fine.

I've got a few nail gun tools from them that serve me quite well.

Heck, I bought my little cement mixer from them. It was on sale for a little over a hundred bucks. I've put several bags through it and it works fine, and when I need it again, it's right here and I don't have to go rent one. I'm sure if I used it everyday it would fall apart, but for as much as I'll use it it's fine.

I've bought quite a lot of consumables from them as well, from diamond blades for cutting flagstone to things like nitrile gloves.

Not everyone needs or can afford festool, sawstop, grex, lie-nielsen and the like.

So I think they have their place. Every couple of months I do a trip where I'll visit the local high end WW store, the local Contractor tool store, and HF.

I usually pick something up at each of them...
 
True, a lot of the stuff there can be junk.

But there are also some items there that work well.

Think of the DC that's been a recent topic of conversation here. It works quite well for more than a few folks.

I've got their variable speed oscillating multi tool. It runs smooth and works like a champ.

I've bought a cheap sledge and an anvil from them. They work fine.

I've got a few nail gun tools from them that serve me quite well.

Heck, I bought my little cement mixer from them. It was on sale for a little over a hundred bucks. I've put several bags through it and it works fine, and when I need it again, it's right here and I don't have to go rent one. I'm sure if I used it everyday it would fall apart, but for as much as I'll use it it's fine.

I've bought quite a lot of consumables from them as well, from diamond blades for cutting flagstone to things like nitrile gloves.

Not everyone needs or can afford festool, sawstop, grex, lie-nielsen and the like.

So I think they have their place. Every couple of months I do a trip where I'll visit the local high end WW store, the local Contractor tool store, and HF.

I usually pick something up at each of them...


Exactly how I feel :thumb::thumb:
 
I am just checking in during my coffee break and while stocking up on some more bandaids. Not bad only a couple of death threats.

I have thought of another use of a cheap tool and that was if you could do a little work on it, modifing to perform above its original cheapness. I have done this in the past and I remembered Vaughn performing some mods on his HF dust collector. I actually went over to the dust collector to see what it looked like.

When I was talking about cheap tools, I was thinking of cheap in construction not necessary in price. I have seen expensive tools that were no better than less expensive, just better marketing or something. I still hold firm in the belief that you are better off saving and getting quality, but understand that we are now instant gratification world willing to buy disposable products as long as we get that widget.

Check out Chris Schwarz's editorial in the latest Popular Woodworking (It just came out). He touches on this same subject, but more along the line of furniture.
 
HF is even eye candy for us non-WW folks. I will say that over the years of Brent going there, the casters are the best value.

Certainly major equipment is better left to the professionals, but there's a lot of stuff that you only need to make due and HF, I think, fills that need.

Bill, just go and have fun :thumb::thumb:
 
Hey Bill. My daughter was telling us that she stopped by her local harbor freight store for something, and happened to see her 86 year old neighbor lady wandering the store. she asked her what she was buying? The response was "Oh nothing, I just like the smell of the new tools in here" I rolled when I heard that, and I think of that lady when I go in there.
I have and I am still using their 12" F style clamps that I got probably ten years ago for I think $1.25 each and they have served me as well as my jorgie 12"clamps go figger! :dunno:
 
As we discussed before, some tools are good to get through HF....such as...an angle grinder, dust collector, buffer, bench grinders, etc. But when it comes to tools that get used everyday like a table saw, band saw, etc....I bank on Grizzly, delta, etc

I found that last bit kinda funny, as a lot of the HF stuff is built in the same factory as the Grizzly and other import name brands. Especially the band saw.

I agree with another poster - it's hard to screw up certain things, especially disposables. Some people feel better about spending more.
 
Things were stirred up. ;)
My bottom line take on HF is the buyer must be aware of what he is buying. I believe many of their low priced tools are the identical item to some high priced brand name labels with only the color and label changed.
Some stuff is really El Cheapo. But I call those 'one time use' or maybe 'once a year use' tools. For the price they have a place.
Larger tools like drill presses, lathes, etc. seem really shoddily made to me and I wouldn't bother with them.
OTOH some items like air compressors and just great bargains.
HF has it's place, as does Grizzly and Festool.
Can't overlook, it is a fun place to browse. Big boys candy store. They do have many items which cannot be found elsewhere.
 
I guess HF has a place, I buy a few things there but not very many. I did pick up a multitool and saw how it worked and then spent the $ on the Fein Multimaster to do the job right but at least the HF version gave me a good idea about how handy a tool like that would be. I do buy their sanding sponges and several other throw away items like that but don't rely on their equipment or power hand tools on an everyday all day basis. I agree that tools don't have to cost a lot to work well but I do lean real hard towards professional power tools that won't give up the ghost in the middle of the job.
 
A Harbor Freight just opened up here in Bellingham. I have never been to one. I have seen on the internet where some people have waxed poetically about the experience. If I was to write a poem about it, it's tone would be similar to a dirge. I just don't see the appeal of such cheap tools, but I suspect they fill a demand. It got me to wondering when is cheap good enough? In my mind, cheap would only be the choice if I believe it was going to be destroyed or harmed in such a manner that I would be disposing of it after a short use.

I understand that cheap tools and cheap products have provided more of an opportunity to more people to have such tools or products. The alternative before the advent of such cheap products was fewer purchases as people saved up their money.

As I get older, and I am not sure it is because of wisdom or senility, I find myself buying quality even if it means doing without until I can afford it. I don't think it is the "right" way, just the right way for me.

I just want to mention that I went to Harbor Freight a little out of curiosity, but also to procure some Evap-o-rust. It is hard to find around here.

Now that I have stirred things up, I think I will go down to the shop and make some ash curlies. Have a good day!


Bill it seems as if the question really is how expensive do they need to be...and do dollars spent really equal quality..

I find that often the dollars spent and the quality bear very little relationship..

But there are some items where you can't buy quality cheap, a good quality tool just has to much material to be cheap.

For example you can't buy a good cabinet saw or even contractor saw for 200.00.

But you can buy a pretty poor one for 2,000.

At least thats my nsho on the issue.

I buy a lot of great stuff at HF but just last week we bought a 3.00 dollar glass thermometer for the porch and the first night it got down below 30F the glass broke from stress. No wind so I am guessing stress or it had colored water instead of alcohol.. Not a tool but quality.. Did I learn no I spent another 80.00 there today.

Garry
 
I agree with the general consensus here.. HF tools are what you get when you to to HF, and if you pay attention, you can get some reasonably good or at least usable tools... you can also get some that aren't so good or usable... I have a number of tools from HF and most serve me well.....
I was taught to get as good a tool as you could afford and learn to use it... the tool doesn't make the craftsman, it's the learning part that works best. Some craftsmen, (I wish I could say I was among their numbers, unfortunately :(,) can take almost any tool and create a great piece of craft.... others even with the best tools don't do so well... (oh well):D:D:wave::wave:
 
It's ok for some things. They really don't carry tools for profesionals though. If you need something to run all the time, or be dependable on the road/in a time critical job, then the quailty and even materials used in HF tools generally isn't a good idea. For the house, it's a choice between buying quality that you need and wasting money on something that you will never really use to its full potential. At work we use $600 hilti hammer drills, at home I have a $95 dewalt hammer drill. It's fine tool for me, but there is simply no comparison to the hilti drills we use at work. Same with ratchets when I was doing mechanic work more. I couldn't afford the time to go get a replacement out of my box much less order one, so they were all snap-ons. Best ratchets I've ever used, and I've broke some of every ratchet brand I know of. For the house I'm more than content with my craftsman set, but a HF probably would have been fine. If you don't care about the cost, pride of ownership and general convenience of nicer tools can lead you to buy the best. Nothing wrong with it to me. For me, I try and buy the level of tool I feel I need, and sometimes that's top of the line, sometimes it's HF.
 
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