Stabilizing.

Drew Croy

Member
Messages
65
Location
NW Ohio
Ok, first off, sorry it's been awhile since I have posted. My daughter has taken up a lot of my free time lately. Now that she's almost 4 months old she is not quite the handful she was when she was a colicky newborn.

I have been trying many stabilizing techniques lately with limited and not repeatable success. I have read every single article on pen turners forums and the ones I could find here. Endless Google searches provide some information but no definite help of any sorts. What I need are some general formula ideas to try. I have the means to do most all of the techniques I just don't have the specifics. Ok, here goes.

PR. I can pressurize to 80psi and hold it. What I lack is the knowledge of how to correctly mix the PR with the correct amount of MEKP as to not make the blank so brittle it just splits when you start turning it, or it has so many air pockets it's like turning sand. The container says 15 drops per Oz of PR. I know that has GOT to be wrong.

I can also vacuum down to -30. Again I don't know how long to hold it there or the correct amount to use when trying to fix "worthless wood"

Plexiglas and Acetone. I have a couple of these mixtures in 1 gallon paint cans. One is pretty thick and the other I kept the consistency of syrup. Should I just chuck the wood in there and pray or should I use a combination of pressure and vacuum to try and draw the solution into the wood?

I kept a log of some of my trials on my webpage www.blackswampwoodturning.webs.com it also shows the equipment I'm using and how I have it set up.

So far i've been able to make a few pieces of wood LOOK good, but they are utter garbage when I try and turn them. I had one burl come out very nice and it even started to round out nicely. As soon as my woodchuck hit where the PR and the wood met....SNAP, flew right apart at the seam.

Any help would be appreciated but please don't point me towards Curtis Seabeck' or Les Elm's articles. I have read them both so many times I think I can probably recite them word for word. Their articles are EXCELLENT for getting started with set-up and equipment but I need information from a couple steps further. Times, concentrations, wood preparation, etc.

Thanks!
 
Stumped??

50 views and no replies. We'll I'm glad you all are just as stumped as I !
When I go back to experimenting with it I'll be sure to take good notes so the next feller that gets into this pickle will have some notes to follow. :huh:
 
I was hoping for replies/suggestions, too, since I'm curious about the process.

I'd think that vacuum instead of pressure would be best, since it'd evacuate some of the air that's in/between the wood's cells and let the mixture seep in to replace the lost air.

The problem (maybe, maybe not) that I see with that is sucking the volatile acetone fumes through a vacuum pump. Seems like maybe a recipe for an explosion. :eek::eek: Perhaps an air-driven (venturi) vacuum pump, or a hand pump (like a brake bleeder) would work, though.

Anyway, these are purely guesses. I have no experience with the processes, and like I said earlier, am very curious to hear about what does work.
 
I use a paint pot (pressure pot) and clear alumilite resin. You can use whatever resin you like though. I have a stopcock on my pot so after I pressurize it, I can shut it off. Don't exceed the pressure recommended by the manufacture and I don't use HF pots, although some do. I have seen a lid lip rip off under pressure and my wife is fond of my face;). To prep your wood...get a small brass brush, they are softer, and remove the junk...lose parts, dirt, bugs.
Make your mold, mix you pigments and put your wood in. Alumilite cures under pressure, resin over time. 48 to 72 hours is good for blanks. Alan Trout is the real expert on this...he makes huge castings!!!. Hope that helps! :wave:
 
Ideas.

I use a venturi I got from Harbor Freight. It was cheap and if it gets burned out from the acetone it's not too costly to replace (19 bucks).

Franks method is the one I have been working with lately but it does take some time to get the mixture to a usable consistency. If you use TOO MUCH plexi your solution will reach a point where the acetone can not break it down further. You have sludge at the bottom of your container and syrup like acetone (I'm assuming this is the usable mixture) at the top of the can.

I plan on going out tomorrow and trying a few test runs. I will document and photograph my results for all of you. You all have helped me enough that I'll take the bullet on this one. I have some BEAUTIFUL Oak burl I want to try and stabilize.

Now on to my other question. Melding PR with worthless wood? Looking for concentrations of MEKP for a good solid fusing. The plexi solution seems to fit the bill for helping out punky wood but it wont do much for squaring out a blank that has huge holes in it.

Thanks!
 
Test Runs

Yesterday's test runs were miserable failures. I have tons of pictures but, pictures of failures are not too helpful.

I did learn that even if you are using a pickle jar with only 2 inches of solution in it inside your vacuum chamber you still need to put something that breaths over the top of it or you will find your vacuum chamber filled with acetone and plexiglas where it aint supposed to be.

I pulled it down to -27 and let it set for almost an hour. It did NOTHING except put a nice coat of plexi on the outside of the blank. No penetration to speak of.

It looks like I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and pick up some alumilite. I've tried PR and I've tried plexitone. No luck so far in stabilizing punky wood or wood with large voids.

Back to the old drawing board.
 
I don't think I've posted on this forum before today but the prevailing thought I'm getting is plexi-acetone(MEK) mix. I use a 50/50 water PVA mixture more often but the reasons are different.

Unless I've missed it reading the posts my question is 'how thick are you making your mix' for stabilizing?

When I use this mixture I use it watery thin.

Drew said: "I did learn that even if you are using a pickle jar with only 2 inches of solution in it inside your vacuum chamber you still need to put something that breaths over the top of it or you will find your vacuum chamber filled with acetone and plexiglas where it aint supposed to be."

Not sure if I'm following you or understanding correctly but I use what I call a "Catch Jar" to catch any of the different mixtures and hopefully out of the pumps seals. Here's a pic of my latest attempt and you can see what I mean by "Catch Jar" with the Classico Label still attached.

MultiPics%252520012.JPG


Then I use another Jar (Olive?) in the Pickle Jar in which I place the liquid and timber ... maybe this pic you can see it.

3155802MultiPics_015__800x600_.JPG


Jim DeLaney said: "The problem (maybe, maybe not) that I see with that is sucking the volatile acetone fumes through a vacuum pump. Seems like maybe a recipe for an explosion. Perhaps an air-driven (venturi) vacuum pump, or a hand pump (like a brake bleeder) would work, though."

No explosion but I've found out the fumes will really ruin the pumps seals.

I do have a pdf file here somewhere where someone used a 'brake bleeder' from HF and a Mason Jar to stabilize. Can't remember what fluid he used.
 
Drew said: "Franks method is the one I have been working with lately but it does take some time to get the mixture to a usable consistency. If you use TOO MUCH plexi your solution will reach a point where the acetone can not break it down further. You have sludge at the bottom of your container and syrup like acetone (I'm assuming this is the usable mixture) at the top of the can."

Yes, that does happen. I guess having a larger pot like I use, a paint pot, helps. Right now I am making more solution and that is exactly the situation. Too much plexi sitting on the bottom as a gooey glop. Way to fix is to add more acetone. I add until there is only a small amount of goo in the bottom. That indicates to me (just me, not a scientific approach) that the solution is fully saturated and ready for use.
 
Drew also said about punky wood: "No luck so far in stabilizing punky wood or wood with large voids."

Right now, I was on the way outside to throw away a large amount of some spalted, rotted, burly Redbud. A friend gave this to me several years ago and it has been drying in my garage ever since. BTW, the buggies and worms have been having a feast on it too. :eek:
Last week I stabilized some and found that wood can be too far gone to be of any value. It stabilized OK but the spongy parts are now just hard sponges and the holes remain. A casting technique would be needed to fix this and I'm not going to get into that.
Last year I stabilized a bunch of pen blanks from this same tree but selected portions that were still solid and not too far rotted. Those are OK. Not great, but OK.
So, I concluded, stabilizing is a technique, not a fix-all for salvaging every piece of rotted wood there is.
 
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