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Thread: I should have listened to my inner voice “RANT”

  1. #1
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    I should have listened to my inner voice “RANT”

    Well I was about done with the finish on Topsy I had the base coat on and the ivy painted on it and working on the top coat. Click image for larger version. 

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    Then it happened The experts at Sherwin-Williams said that I will have to use this finish over the latex paint. Helmsman Spar Urethane water base as any lacquer would cause it to peel. So I head home fat dumb and happy but really knowing better but hey I have been out of the finishing loop for a few years and I am sure things have change RIGHT and they are the experts.

    Well first coat went kind of OK. I just need to adjust my setting on the sprayer right. Second coat I see a little fish eying no problem must have sprayed on to thick sanded it down nice and smooth and applied 3rd coat.

    You guessed it fish eye but this time even worse or the finish was just rough as a cob. A call to S.W. and there answer is I mush have a contaminated spray system. So I take it all apart and wash it with HOT soapy water and 4 or 5 HOT,HOT,HOT rinses and spray another coat.

    Yep it got even worse. Another call to the experts and they said I would just have to brush it on with a good high dollar natural bristle brush (yeah I have money to blow). I get me a brush and have a go at it. It just didn't seem to flow our right but I went ahead and put a second coat on after sanding, on just one side of the case.
    YEP you could see every brush fiber in every stroke it looked like a 2 year old did it paper towel.

    So this time I sanded it down until it looked smooth and went up to 1500 grit wet and used polishing compound. I did this on the under side where it wouldn't show if it went wrong. It didn't look bad so I pressed on. Of course when sanding the rest of the organ it sanded through the top coat in spots before getting all the fish eye out

    A call to another company in my area (M.L.Campbell dealer) to ask about what they had that might fix the problem I was having (S.W. response was I was just doing it wrong). I told them I was trying to spray the Helmsman Spar Urethane over paint and before I could tell them the problem they said that Helmsman Urethane will not work as the paint will cause contamination and it will fish eye or be rough All this before I told them what it was doing.

    So thanks to S.W. EXPERTS this it where I am at after 3 weeks of work and $60 poorer and 2 trips to town (Oh they did give me another QT of finish for fee)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am SOOOOO Happy I went to the EXPERTS....................NOT
    A Turn N Time
    Components for John Smith Organs and the Hobby Organ Builder

    Frog Pond Guitars


    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

  2. #2
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    ok first thing jay you should have asked dave hawksford on this,, i know hindsight is always better than fore sight ,,, but now were threw the storm ,, what are tryun to do have ared paint color and then clear caot over that? if so you could have used dye jay.. and might be able to to still but looks like from your pics that paint is in order now..so what are you headed for for final finish?
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
    One hand washes the other!
    Don't put off today till tomorrow!

  3. #3
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    Sorry about your mess Jay. Anytime you want to use a lacquer over a Latex you need to apply a sealer coat or 2 in piss coat applications then apply lacquer coat in the same way , 2 coats then one good coat.
    I dream a lot. I do more painting when I'm not painting. It's in the subconscious.
    ::: Andrew Wyeth :::
    colonialrestorationstudio.com

  4. #4
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    Your right Larry but I have done this type of finish in production back when I had my shop and never had a problem. So far 2 thing have come in to play and one of them is OLD stock finish (it was on sale so what do ya think)

    The other company I talked to ( just got off the phone with them) said I should have stuck with my old ways as the water base stuff has not made that many advances in 30 years.

    They are recommending a ZAR product that is a Acrylic urethane. Will look into it more.

    In the mean time it is back to painting the base coat on and repainting the Ivy on.

    I want total wood grain coverage and that is why I didn't go with stain. To many patches in the Baltic Birch to stain.

    How ever after saying that I am open to options.
    A Turn N Time
    Components for John Smith Organs and the Hobby Organ Builder

    Frog Pond Guitars


    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksford View Post
    Sorry about your mess Jay. Anytime you want to use a lacquer over a Latex you need to apply a sealer coat or 2 in piss coat applications then apply lacquer coat in the same way , 2 coats then one good coat.

    What I was worried about with Lacquer Dave was yellowing.

    Would you use shellac for the sealer piss coat???
    A Turn N Time
    Components for John Smith Organs and the Hobby Organ Builder

    Frog Pond Guitars


    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

  6. #6
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    With what you were spraying over you would not get any noticeable yellowing. The yellowing is very slight over white colors, white whites are the problem. Or it would be just as good to use the water born lacquers. But I would still use a good lacquer sanding sealer no matter what I was topping it with.
    I dream a lot. I do more painting when I'm not painting. It's in the subconscious.
    ::: Andrew Wyeth :::
    colonialrestorationstudio.com

  7. #7
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    What a war of confusion!! sorry to hear about all that Jay.
    I put a polyurethane clear coat on the inside of my white painted pressure box and it dried with a yellow tint! the can says clear! I learned my lesson the hard way. "The test is always before the lesson".

  8. #8
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    That's a real bummer... Nothing worse than having a finish go bad mid stream.....

    Funny you mention ML Campbells telling you that SW was wrong ML Campbells IS Sherwin Williams now... SW bought them a few years ago. But SW knows paint ML knows the clears and such.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Soby View Post
    Funny you mention ML Campbells telling you that SW was wrong ML Campbells IS Sherwin Williams now... SW bought them a few years ago. But SW knows paint ML knows the clears and such.

    Yeah I had that conversation with the dealer also. What they claim is that under contract S.W. Can not change the formula of the M.L.Campbell product which as I understand they did on others they bought out and they turned to crap just like S.W. water base products. (Im talking lacquers and polys here)
    I still feel that S.W. paints are top notch and hard to beat.

    They are saying to use ZAR and I'm not sure who owns it.
    A Turn N Time
    Components for John Smith Organs and the Hobby Organ Builder

    Frog Pond Guitars


    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksford View Post
    With what you were spraying over you would not get any noticeable yellowing. The yellowing is very slight over white colors, white whites are the problem. Or it would be just as good to use the water born lacquers. But I would still use a good lacquer sanding sealer no matter what I was topping it with.
    Would you use a solvent base sealer??

    Do you think Magnlac would be OK to spray over the latex paint after using a sealer??
    A Turn N Time
    Components for John Smith Organs and the Hobby Organ Builder

    Frog Pond Guitars


    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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