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Thread: Spray Finish Setup - Question

  1. #1
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    Spray Finish Setup - Question

    Part of the day free today so I decided to start hooking up my air line and Filter/Regulator. I do have some questions about the assembly though.
    I started by running the longer pc of black pipe under the shelf shown in the picture (pic #3) (tilted down a tad). Then down to the Regulator/Filter and screwed to the wall on a small pc of wood (pic 4 & 5).

    Picture - 2 shows the front where i put a 3 way thing with different disconnects on for pure compressor air for blow gun etc.......

    Other end down to a 90' elbow - Pic #1

    Went to HD and they do not carry flexable piping so ill have to order it online which is no problem - However, the guy in the store told me i have to use a compression fitting between the ball valve and connecting to the flexable pipe...........Why? I am not understanding as i thought i would be able to connect the flexable pipe to the 90 elbow and call it done.

    Lastly - when I connect the flexable pipe to the 90.....then when I get to the ball valve to complete the plumbing how does it connect ?
    Seems its ridged to the ball valve.....Having trouble understanding how the final connection at the ball valve happens ????
    Distance from the 90' elbow to the ball valve is 32"..........where can I buy the flexable steel piping online ??? suggestions ? or maybe 3' so i have a bit extra

    Simple Way ------A friend told me use Hydraulic hose with NPT fittings - the hydraulic hose is usually rated up to 3000lbs....<-----this would be easy to connect and do and thought it may be a good idea......I have a friend that hooked his tank to the steel piping this way and it has worked well for over 10 years......thoughts????

    HD guy suggested that an appliance hose would work just as easy but im thinking that the above with fittings would work well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wall compressor.jpg   Tank-1.jpg   Pipe Run.jpg   Filter-1.jpg   Filter-2.jpg  

    Last edited by Dan Mosley; 07-28-2011 at 04:02 AM.
    First you have to learn the rules - Beginner
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  2. #2
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    Spray Finish Setup - Question

    Decent setup Dan. Glad you installed valves at the tank, (I forgot to mention that on the phone.) Where is the rest of the pipe beyond the tee to the regulator, on the down pipe? What you have is too short to hold any ammount of water before it gets sucked right into the filter. You need some length (even wth that drain valve almost to the floor if needed) to act as your moisture trap. The water in the line will drain straight down toward the drain valve so you can drain it out before it goes into your filter. (see Vaughn's setup?) Good job.

    As to that hose thing, I also used hydraulic hose (short length, 2 ft.) It helps to keep the compressor vibration from telegraphing to the building, makes it some quieter, and not as much vibration strain on those pipe fittings too. The new setup I told you about on my compressor hs that "Jackhammer" hose now, instead of the short hydraulic hose.

    Aloha, Tony
    Last edited by Tony Baideme; 07-28-2011 at 06:37 AM.
    "You got to learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself". (Author unknown)

    "Time flies like..... an arrow,,,Fruit flies like..... a banana." Groucho Marx

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  3. #3
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    That looks like a nice filter, Dan. You're off to a good start with the plumbing.

    I'll second the hydraulic hose suggestion. I have two flex hoses: One from my compressor to the rigid piping, and one from the ceiling to my 'air station' that's mounted on a wheeled bench. (The bench seldom gets moved, but I wanted to be able to move it a few inches if necessary.)

    When I first installed my piping, I used clear braided plastic hose (rated for 200 working and 600 bursting PSI, as I recall) with barb fittings and hose clamps. Within a few minutes of bringing the system up to pressure for the first time, as I was tightening up a few small leaks, one of those barb fittings came loose as I was tightening the hose clamp. You've not lived until you've had a 3/4" plastic hose with 125 PSI of air pressure making it do the snake dance in your face. It knocked my glasses clear across the shop, but fortunately only grazed my face before I was able to duck and get out of the way. (And shut off the air at the tank.) It could have easily broken my face. (No big loss there, I guess.)

    After that experience, I went to a hydraulic hose shop and bought the 3000 PSI models with NPT fittings...one fixed and the other swivel. No problems since.

    I'll also second Tony's suggestions on making the drop for the moisture trap longer. Something like this would be more effective:



    And as Tony said, making your main feed line longer would be a good idea if it can be done. The longer distance the air has to travel, the more chance it has to cool and allow the moisture in the air to condense. Once it is condensed into droplets instead of vapor, the moisture trap can do its job and catch most of the water before it gets to your filter. Catching it in the trap makes it less likely that any moisture will get past the filter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dan's Moisture Trap Tweaked.jpg  
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn McMillan View Post
    That looks like a nice filter, Dan. You're off to a good start with the plumbing.

    I'll second the hydraulic hose suggestion. I have two flex hoses: One from my compressor to the rigid piping, and one from the ceiling to my 'air station' that's mounted on a wheeled bench. (The bench seldom gets moved, but I wanted to be able to move it a few inches if necessary.)

    When I first installed my piping, I used clear braided plastic hose (rated for 200 working and 600 bursting PSI, as I recall) with barb fittings and hose clamps. Within a few minutes of bringing the system up to pressure for the first time, as I was tightening up a few small leaks, one of those barb fittings came loose as I was tightening the hose clamp. You've not lived until you've had a 3/4" plastic hose with 125 PSI of air pressure making it do the snake dance in your face. It knocked my glasses clear across the shop, but fortunately only grazed my face before I was able to duck and get out of the way. (And shut off the air at the tank.) It could have easily broken my face. (No big loss there, I guess.)

    After that experience, I went to a hydraulic hose shop and bought the 3000 PSI models with NPT fittings...one fixed and the other swivel. No problems since.

    I'll also second Tony's suggestions on making the drop for the moisture trap longer. Something like this would be more effective:



    And as Tony said, making your main feed line longer would be a good idea if it can be done. The longer distance the air has to travel, the more chance it has to cool and allow the moisture in the air to condense. Once it is condensed into droplets instead of vapor, the moisture trap can do its job and catch most of the water before it gets to your filter. Catching it in the trap makes it less likely that any moisture will get past the filter.
    +1. Vaughn's suggestion for the piping to the filter/regulator is a better layout. You can use a length of good quality reinforced rubber air hose for the connection from the tank to the pipe. That's what I've done with no problems. Put a quick disconnect on both ends. Hydraulic hose is a bit of overkill though.





    .

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike marvel View Post
    ...Hydraulic hose is a bit of overkill though.
    I agree. My whole air system is pretty much overkill for my needs, so the hydraulic hose fits right in. I'm glad I was in a position at the time to be able to overbuild the system the way I did, but I surely could have gotten by just fine with fewer bells and whistles.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
    When the weird get going, they start their own forum. - Vaughn McMillan

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  6. #6
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    Thanks and ill make some corrections that i can....I probably will not be able to make the main line longer though due to space available......I will extend the one pipe as suggested..........

    I ordered the hose today. I went to McMaster-Carr to see about the fittings and got tangled up when looking at them......the specs below are of the hose I am getting...and the picture

    Hose Diameter (in.) 1/2
    Hose Fitting Size (in. NPT) 1/2
    Hose Length (in.) 36
    Working Pressure (PSI) 3,500

    What size swivels or adapters should I get do you think ? I do not want to mess up the order of them so I thought i would ask first......thanks Dan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hose.jpg  
    Last edited by Dan Mosley; 07-28-2011 at 01:09 PM.
    First you have to learn the rules - Beginner
    Then you have to learn advanced rules - Professional
    Then you disregard the rules - This takes you to the master level................

  7. #7
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    update on last comment

    I realize what your saying about the drop down by the filter for trapping which needs to be longer - that would be a easy fix.

    I see what your saying about making the main line longer to assist in condensation - The only way I can think of to do that is to come off the ball valve and go up to the ceiling then across the ceiling to the opposite side of the garage and then back to the other side and down to where the filter/regulator are

    Thoughts?
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    Then you have to learn advanced rules - Professional
    Then you disregard the rules - This takes you to the master level................

  8. #8
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    A lot of folks have done essentially the same thing. They do a run or two of of pipe across the ceiling just to make the air travel a bit before it gets to the outlet. In your case, you'd just be making a long, skinny "U" shape, which would likely be beneficial. I've seen posts on car painting forums from guys who recommend running the air through 50' of pipe (and water traps/filters) before it gets to the gun. In a lot of shops, 50' might not be practical, but I'd think 25' of 1/2" metal pipe with one or two good water traps will trap more moisture than 25' of 3/8" rubber hose on the floor.

    If you were to do the "across the room and back" pipe run, ideally it would have a moisture trap before it goes up to the ceiling, and another one when it comes back down. Also ideally, the pipe would have a slight slope to it...the bottom part of the "U" shape (on the other side of the room) would be higher than the open end of the "U", where the two moisture traps would be. This allows any free water to roll downhill into the water traps.

    One caveat to any kind of extended pipe run is the more joints you have, the more chance you have for leaks. When I built my system, I was diligent about using good pipe joint compound, and just paid attention to getting good, tight joints. I also pressure-tested the 'cooling rack' part of my system separately, since it has a LOT of joints in it. I made sure it was tight before I hooked up the rest of the plumbing. The only leaks I have now are at the quick disconnect fittings. I leave my system pressurized all the time, but turn off the compressor when I leave the shop. As long as I remember to close the ball valves at the quick disconnects, the system will still have 125 PSI in it the next time I use it.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
    When the weird get going, they start their own forum. - Vaughn McMillan

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  9. #9
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    Spray Finish Setup - Question

    Yes Dan,

    Vaughn has put together a pretty good setup. I'd follow his direction if I were you, but don't disregard what I have told you either. You have a PM. You can call again, if you like, too.

    Aloha.
    "You got to learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself". (Author unknown)

    "Time flies like..... an arrow,,,Fruit flies like..... a banana." Groucho Marx

    Ah,,,to live in Paradise!

    Registered voting member

    Fighting for all I am worth, and praying every day.

  10. #10
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    Thanks to all of you for the advice........next day off is during the week and im going to get additional piping-traps etc and re do the main part of the piping - going up to the ceiling and back and forth.......ill post pics later when i can........still waiting on hydraulic hose to arrive also......
    ok thanks and talk to you soon..................Dan
    First you have to learn the rules - Beginner
    Then you have to learn advanced rules - Professional
    Then you disregard the rules - This takes you to the master level................

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