Bandsaw, new or old

Dave Black

Member
Messages
638
Location
Central PA
I have a newer cheap 14 delta bandsaw, its OK. I was thinking of making a change if I can do it with little additional cost. I was thinking of selling mine and buying the grizzly ultimate 14" (the polar bear series is on special now). My other thought is look for an old 60-70s or older vintage machine. Is there anything I would be missing if I got the older machine? Usually the old ones don't have roller guides, are roller guides much better than guide blocks/cool blocks? I want to be able to do some resawing, I doubt that I would need more than 6" resaw height since I really don't have any wood wider than that. Is a fence a good way to go for resawing. I have seen some people use a post type of thing instead of a fence, seems harder that way to me, of course you wouldn't need to mess with fence drift angle. So new or old?
 
If it is that Grizzly, No question, the new. That is one HECK of a machine. I have an older Delta 14". It is in almost new condition. I have a new Grizzly. It is much easier to use. To me there is no question---the Grizzly.

PM Glenn Bradley (my son). He has had a GO513 band saw for some time now. Ask what he thinks. Do a search on FWW and see what members have to say about their machines.

I wish you the best of luck on your choice and I wish you the most possible happiness with your choice.

Enjoy,

Jim
 
put some money into the one you have and make it do what you want..you probally wont get much for the one you have in todays market.. so why loose money to gain alittle in use and spend more money to get there.
 
Dave, in essence you are looking at the same saw (if you have the Delta model I am thinking of) You really need to do an apples for apples comparison on the two and provided your existing saw is in good condition and all things being equal. Say you can sell your Delta for 200 -250. So you are looking at 250 - 300 for the Griz and not getting alot more for that.
IMHO that 250 - 300 could be better spent on upgrades and improvements to what you already have rather than making a lateral move.

Grizzly makes some nice machinery, but the one you are looking at is old tech, just like the Delta you have. That design has been around a long time and there are several manufacturers out there making aftermarket accessories for it.
IF you have the "cool blocks" I would suggest upgrading to the roller kit Carter makes. That alone will be a significant improvement.

The pin for resawing allows you to freehand compensate for drift, Takes a bit of practice to get used to but some guys like it better than having to adjust their fence whenever they change operations or blades.
 
Dave I agree with Rich and Larry.

Jim i think is refering to his new Grizzly bandsaw which is not the same as the Ultimate 14 inch.

I have a delta X5 basically all the same technology.

Where the difference comes in is simple.

1) Motor horsepower....check out what you have its hp is a big thing to get improvement on this config of machine. Most are 3/4 mine is 1.5Hp and this makes a significant difference.

2) The tires on the wheels and the type of wheels. Mine are cast and have been balanced and fitted with the polyeurethane rubber tires. This is a big improvement over the more traditional rubber tire.

3) Tension spring. There is a guy called Iturra that has no website but sells upgrades for these machines that take all the tai chi issues and fix them. He developed a new spring for the tension. You can buy it at a few places its a square metal material and painted yellow but the tension ability is day and night.

4) There is a part that controls the alignement of the top wheel and adjusts where the blade will track. This also sometimes on certain tai chi builds needs replacing and he makes a totally improved component. It helps correct many issues.

5) Guides mine came with adjustable guids and normal steel blocks. I immediately upgraded to the phenolic graphite impregnated blocks and they fine and cheap and you can embedd the blade in them for extra stability, you dont really need the carter roller guides.

6) For resaw get a decent blade. This is a huge issue after getting the machine all tuned up and aligned.

Start with the motor and depending on what its size is i would then make the decision as to what my next steps would be. If its a decent size and the rest of the unit is in good condition generally (not bent and cracked etc) then put some money into the wheels, spring, cool blocks and check on your alignement casting to see if its bent or not. You will not believe the difference after this. Of course getting a decent blade goes without saying and will aplly whether you buy a new machine or keep the old so thats a wash essentially.

Other add ons would be the riser block where you can increase the height of the resaw ability.

But if you start to want to venture there, then all in you may be better off selling your unit but then i would save scrouge or do whatever and step up to what Glenn, Jim, Drew and others have just recently acquired and get a bigger one like the model Jim referred to.

As i understand it you getting set to do some semi production for your drums etc then if you can muster the loot upgrade for future ease, production and quality of cut.

Dave Lee Valley has all the bits and pieces you want. But if you can get hold of Iturra Design you will be heading down the right track too. I see his contact details in this link. Good luck:thumb:

http://www.spaceageceramicguideblocks.com/Iturra-Design.html
 
Upgrade the saw you have I have the older Grizzly G1019 band-saw with riser block & cool blocks see pic. I installed a Leeson 1.5 hp 1725 rpm motor that I had & cool blocks & with wood slicer blade from Highland wood-working.

Now it slices & dices it's the new Ginsu ...oops sidetracked again but wait it can cut nice thin slices of veneer no problem.
 

Attachments

  • A1 myshop 041.jpg
    A1 myshop 041.jpg
    49.7 KB · Views: 26
Dave, in essence you are looking at the same saw (if you have the Delta model I am thinking of) You really need to do an apples for apples comparison on the two and provided your existing saw is in good condition and all things being equal. Say you can sell your Delta for 200 -250. So you are looking at 250 - 300 for the Griz and not getting alot more for that.
IMHO that 250 - 300 could be better spent on upgrades and improvements to what you already have rather than making a lateral move.

Grizzly makes some nice machinery, but the one you are looking at is old tech, just like the Delta you have. That design has been around a long time and there are several manufacturers out there making aftermarket accessories for it.
IF you have the "cool blocks" I would suggest upgrading to the roller kit Carter makes. That alone will be a significant improvement.

The pin for resawing allows you to freehand compensate for drift, Takes a bit of practice to get used to but some guys like it better than having to adjust their fence whenever they change operations or blades.

I have the delta 28-276, in theory its not a bad saw but the quality of the castings are not good. Part of the table trunnions are diecast and they sit on the the machined lower casting of the saw, the machining there is so bad when I tightened the table tilt a little too much I cracked the die cast trunnion. I what thinking that I could make a more or less even trade for an older saw that would be better quality and make some upgrades to that. I did see a craftsman professional 14" on CL for a decent price, it has a steel frame rather than a cast frame. I don't know if they are better or not.
 
Wow!:eek: Yeah that's not good at all and sounds like the saw has bigger problems than just needing some upgrades.
Craftsman has been made by many "name" brand companies over the years. The only problem that you will more likely than not run into with Craftsman is that the parts or accessories available are specific to craftsman. They usually do something just a little different so that you have to use their product.
I would stick to more mainstream companies like an older Delta/Rockwell
Or consider taking the jump and get a new saw. That Grizzly seems like a good one. Also, you might consider looking at the Rikon's I have an 18 and absolutely love it. They do make a 14 as well.
 
Dave,

You have this one? http://www.thewoodnerd.com/reviews/delta_bandsaw_28-276.html

And the trunnions are cracked? Are you sure you'll get a return on investment putting more money into it? :huh:

I've heard lots of people say they're happy with their grizzleys. My memory's going, but I just can't remember the same number of people saying that about this saw... :dunno:

Thanks,

Bill

thats the one,
it only cracked 1 trunnion, and I replaced it so its fine now, as long as I don't over tighten it again.
 
Last edited:
I am going to chime in again.
I have read all of the above and they make good points.

However (you knew that there would be a "However" didn't you.), to me, what you are looking at is spending money to try and fix something you don't like and make it something you do like.

I could spend a lot of money making my old, in wonderful shape Delta, better. No matter what I did or what I spent, I could not get that Delta into the shape that the Grizzly owners are enthused about.

My Grizzly is a more expensive machine than you are looking at so I have some puffs and perks the smaller machine does not have. So don't listen to me. Use "Search" and go through the posts and threads of people who have the Grizzly machine you are looking at. Everyone I have seen says that they love the machine. I am sure if I hunted hard enough I could find someone who does not like it. I don't have to hunt at all to find many people who love it.

Buy happiness. You are probably going to use it for a long time. Don't be like the person who purchased an off brand Grand Piano to save a few buck. Then that person spent the rest of their lives saying, "I wish I bought a Steinway."

I know I sound like I own Grizzly stock. However, I have absolutely no connection with them. It is just the fact that I love my GO513 X2 bandsaw. READ WHAT THE OWNERS OF THE MACHINE YOU ARE CONSIDERING SAY.

Decisions are difficult. You are going to live a long time with this decision. This is not a haircut that will grow back in two weeks decision. You are going to have a lot of years to say, "I wish I bought a Steinway." to yourself.

I don't suppose that you would figure that I feel strongly about this.

Enjoy,

Jim

And enjoy whatever you get!
 
I tend to agree with the buy another one, but what all do you want your bandsaw to do that it doesn't do currently? How much resawing are you looking at doing at a time?

The two areas you can go wrong that I can see are spending more money in add on parts to make your current band saw as good as a new grizzly than buying the new saw costs, or buying a new bandsaw that's not big enough to meet your needs.
 
I tend to agree with the buy another one, but what all do you want your bandsaw to do that it doesn't do currently? How much resawing are you looking at doing at a time?

The two areas you can go wrong that I can see are spending more money in add on parts to make your current band saw as good as a new grizzly than buying the new saw costs, or buying a new bandsaw that's not big enough to meet your needs.

I don't want to keep my current saw. My main question is should I buy a good quality used older saw, like an older delta. I know that with a decent older saw and a good blade I can do resawing and what ever else. I know that the Grizzly G0555 is considered a really good saw and will do whatever I need it to do also. I don't do much resawing now but I am looking to do more of it. Most likely an older saw won't have roller bearing guides, the Grizzly does have them. Are roller guides that much better than guide blocks especially for resawing? Grizzly is having a tent sale in Muncy (which is about 2 hours) away in september, I think I will sell my saw and check out what is at the tent sale and go from there.
 
I don't want to keep my current saw...

Back when I bought my Laguna 16" saw, one of the smartest things I did (in retrospect) was to keep my old TaiChi 14" saw, too. I mainly got the LT16 for resawing, and it's really great for that, but now I keep a narrow - 3/16" or 1/4" - blade in the old saw, and I find that I'm really using both of them about equally.

So, if you've got the room I'd highly recommend having two saws - one set up for 'heavy' work, and the other for 'light' stuff.
 
Back when I bought my Laguna 16" saw, one of the smartest things I did (in retrospect) was to keep my old TaiChi 14" saw, too. I mainly got the LT16 for resawing, and it's really great for that, but now I keep a narrow - 3/16" or 1/4" - blade in the old saw, and I find that I'm really using both of them about equally.

So, if you've got the room I'd highly recommend having two saws - one set up for 'heavy' work, and the other for 'light' stuff.

I thought about that, I do have the room but not the cash. Maybe someday.
 
Wait a minute.


I do believe there is a certain amount of talking at cross purposes taking place in this thread.


On one hand many are saying buy new but they saying buy a bigger completely different machine config that costs substantially more than a 14" bandsaw.


I note Bill Lantrys post on the delta and i am not going to defend Delta but i will say lets talk technical and specifics as to why a bandsaw does or does not resaw adequately.

Then I would say make a decision from there.


The general build of the Grizz Go55 is the same basic saw as the delta.

Both are tai chi unless you get the X5 made in the USA like i did which well nowadays you might as well go for a grizzly like Jim et al have purchased and save money and get a better saw.

But if you think you gonna change out saws and buy a Grizz G0555 which i sense is pulling you that way simply because there is a tent sale then i think you making a real mistake.


It takes HP to resaw properly.
It takes a proper blade set up to cut properly at 90degreees to the table both ways.
It takes proper tension.


These three elements are going to be an issue whether its the Delta 14" series or the Go555 series. There aint gonna suddenly be a miracle happen because its Polar bear white.

Tai chi casting are baiscally the same. So in my opinion you gonna get pretty much the same issues.

The standard machines are not generally sold with good quality tires in fact some come with pressed steel wheels never properly balanced versus heavier cast wheels that have been.

Nothing will change if the wheels are not in alignment. This gets back to tune up of the saw.

This big deal about roller guides is not all fact. They do clog read up what a guy that is an expert has to say about roller guides. They are not the criteria required to obtain a good resaw.

I spent ages to get my saw to resaw and it was all in the set up the tune up the blade and understanding what the heck i was doing.

Dont go throwing the baby out with the bath water just because the Grizz marketing guys have got into your head with a tent sale.

Last point is take note that the 14" Cast frame C config bandsaws which covers Jet, Grizz, Delta and a bunch more are all suseptable to flex. This and power of motor is one of the main reasons the welded larger resaw frame machines are now more popular and have become better priced.

If you pm me with an email address i will send you some info that i have on Iturra Design this comes from a guy that trully knows what he is talking about and has built a reputation and business on the bandsaw alone.

BUt if you want polar bear white that badly go for it.:D

Most of these companies copied the 14" Delta so i dont see the point.
 
Based on my experience i'd like to emphasize:

1) guides - roller guides are ok, but do clog when working with pitchy wood. What happens then is that the blade starts wobbling around a bit and you can get heat build up - blades and bearings don't like that. I have one saw with roller bearings and one with steel guide blocks with a roller thrust bearing behind the blade. For smoother more consistent results, especially resawing pitchy wood, i use the saw with the steel guide block bearings.

2) I'm a big advocate of buying used machinery, provided you can get what you need at a reasonable price. You have to do a little homework to know what you want and what you're looking at, but i've often found that i get much higher quality for my dollar when buying used. It helps if you don't mind replacing wear items like tires, power cords, and bearings. Be aware of cracked/broken castings, missing obscure parts, 3 phase motors, and former "home" repairs.

3) Motors - there's no substitute for power. I find that 1hp can bog down on a 12" resaw cut and am upgrading that motor to 2hp. For 6" resaw, though, the 1hp works just fine.

4) There's little appreciable difference in the general makeup of the two saws you're considering. They're probably very comparable UNLESS you find a used older 14" saw that's already been set up for resawing.

5) On the used market, i'd widen my net to include other brands. I've got a 1930's 20" Crescent that's a complete beast for what i need. It was quite cheap because the previous owner had no use for it and it was a hassle to move. Another $75 replaced the tires, electric cord/plug, and wheel bearings. My other saw is a late 1800's off brand C-frame. It was a fun little project bringing it back from a pile of rust. There are no parts for it anywhere, so the few missing bits were made, one-off. It works great as well.

6) Don't assume the new Grizzley fixes all of the issues with an older Delta - some improvements, sure, but it's basically the same saw.

paulh
 
Top