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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Oceanside, So. Calif. 5 mi. to the ocean


    (We know, you have heard that before. Well this time it is true.)


    For several weeks the moderators (mods) have been hashing and re-hashing the political and religious aspects of the Family Woodworking C of C.


    Some members feel that our rules are too lax.
    Some members feel that our rules are too stringent.
    Some members feel that the rules are not uniformly enforced.
    There is a feeling that member “A” gets called out about a statement, while member “B” does not get notified about the same problem.


    The mods have been spending more time on the problem than every thing else they do. (Especially the religious aspect)

    I believe that most, if not all mods, have had to make decisions based on the C of C that run contrary to their own personal feelings.

    Some of the mods have lost sleep because of churning over the various aspects of the problem.

    The mods are aware that there are no rules that we can write that people cannot get around, either by accident or on purpose.

    We want to keep the C of C as simple as will work. We remember that a famous person, years ago made the statement some thing like, Every law / rule made to solve a problem will create at least two more problems.

    We have some very devoutly religious members (of many faiths) and we have some members who easily can cuss a blue streak. These members do control themselves when they post on FWW. We sincerely wish everyone else would try to do this also.

    The main thrust of FWW is woodworking. Equally important is, Family. You should be pleased to have your children read anything on the threads. Equally important: It does not matter if you are a Democrat, Republican, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Atheist or any religion. FWW does not care what color skin you have, where you live, how much money you make or how skilled you are at woodworking.

    No one should proselytize another on FWW or offend otherwise by swearing, name calling, etc.

    The mods are trying to make an initial decision on this by Friday Sept 16, in case it affects your voting for new moderators.
    This thread is also duplicated in the general woodworking section. We want as many people as possible to see it.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Jim C Bradley; 09-14-2011 at 08:35 PM. Reason: To bold line one
    First of all you have to be smarter than the machine.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Honolulu, Hawaii



    I have no problem with leaving politics and religion out of these forums. I come here to read about woodworking, machines, tools and techniques. I have made acquaintences of many great people and I would hope this is never taken away from me, becuse of some who cannot, for whatever reason, control their feelings for some subjects.

    The mods have done, IMHO, a terrific job, one that I would not want to undertake, because of those complexities. All of you, keep up the good work.

    Aloha, Tony, an appreciative member of FWW.
    "You got to learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself". (Author unknown)

    "Time flies like..... an arrow,,,Fruit flies like..... a banana." Groucho Marx

    Ah,,,to live in Paradise!

    Registered voting member

    Fighting for all I am worth, and praying every day.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Delton, Michigan
    well said jim,, not all of your brains have leaked out yet
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
    One hand washes the other!
    Don't put off today till tomorrow!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    No, not all of SoCal is Los Angeles!
    Speaking as one who has served as a moderator, I can say that it is a challenging position to undertake. There is no shortage of participants who, given a captive audience, cannot resist the urge to impose or expound their personal beliefs regardless of how inappropriate the context.

    FamilyWoodWorking is primarily about woodworking. One of the joys/miseries of this unique group is that we support a large percentage of Off Topic discussion in order to enjoy the fellowship and sense of family it promotes. Kudos to the mods; past, present and future, who undertake the task of keeping FWW a wonderfully open place to discuss, above all, woodworking and all the elements that go into making up the lives of the members that surround it.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Outside the beltway
    I dream a lot. I do more painting when I'm not painting. It's in the subconscious.
    ::: Andrew Wyeth :::

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Villa Park, CA
    I'd rather not see politics or religion discussed because it seems that it's impossible to have a rational discussion about either subject. Very quickly the discussion stops being factual and rational and degrades to name calling.

    I actually would like to be able to discuss those subjects with others who can do so in a factual and rational manner but I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible.

    So, if we're going to ban religious discussion, I'd also like to see signatures that praise some deity (usually a Christian deity) banned, also.

    Ancora imparo
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  7. #7
    I believe the efforts of the Moderators have been good. All you can ask or expect is a well meant effort to objectively interpret and enforce the current CoCs. The Moderators like all members are human too and thus subject to making errors on occasion. But, the group decisions made by the Mod Team here typically reduces or minimizes the chance of a subjective decision on the part of one Mod.

    No matter how well written the CoCs are there will be certain members who when called on the carpet for their post will claim unfair bias, or unfair enforcement. These type of claims typically come from those who dare to walk too close to the line and step over it periodically. These same individuals can often be habitual offenders.

    Religion and politics are two subjects that should not be discussed and yet it's hard to not want to express support for someone in a time of personal distress or disaster by saying something like "my thoughts and prayers are with you". Some are offended by that kind of statement. I believe some people want to be offended or erroneously believe their view of the world is the only correct view and thus the only interpretation of how things should be.

    In short.....don't change anything and keep on doing what you've been doing. It seems to work well for most of the members and you aren't going to please everybody all of the time. Get some sleep knowing you made your best effort and that's all one can do or expect.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    I'd rather not see politics or religion discussed because it seems that it's impossible to have a rational discussion about either subject. Very quickly the discussion stops being factual and rational and degrades to name calling.

    I actually would like to be able to discuss those subjects with others who can do so in a factual and rational manner but I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible.

    So, if we're going to ban religious discussion, I'd also like to see signatures that praise some deity (usually a Christian deity) banned, also.

    I can agree to ban political and religous threads amd or debates....this is a wood working forum......not a political or religous site.

    That being said.....when one of the members asks for prayers for a loved one....I mean "for the Love of G-D".....what is wrong with sending him our prayers? And I am someone who does not go to church, or involved with the church in any way....(except when i play Assassins Creed )

    My point is ....these are typed words.....nothing more....I don't know you and you don't know me. That being said, what is the harm of sending someone our best wishes and prayers in a time of need......Is'nt that what families do?
    Last edited by Dom DiCara; 09-15-2011 at 12:34 AM.
    Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsmen can hide his mistakes!

    The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Lafayette, Indiana
    To whom it may concern:

    These are my words and mine only. I see more and more every day.... we the people this country giving up our freedoms in order to not offend the few who choose differently. At some point....enough is enough! This is a woodworking forum that was started by a few like minded people. As it got bigger and bigger the members became more and more diverse. Thats all good and fine but if you do not like this forum....please find another one. If/When the day comes that I do not like it.... I too will leave. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell everyone that you have to behave a certain way so as to be sensitive to my feelings. If I don't like the neighborhood....I'll move!
    We are all adults and we know what is right and wrong.
    This country was built on a religious right. That right is in all of us. If you choose to not exercise that be it. There is a HUGE difference between asking for someones prayers in a post and swearing in another. They are not the same offense.
    If you do not like what you read in a post...move on to the next. If you eventually find yourself alone with no one responding to you then take a look at yourself and ask why. If you don't know...ask. I don't have any problem telling someone that their sense of humor is not to my liking or I don't like their language or if I prefer not reading their posts. I have that right! You also have that right! Use it......or not! You nor I have the right to tell anyone that you should behave in a way to satisfy someone else.
    Be an adult...act like one....and put your selfish feelings away while on this forum.
    I like this forum. It has become a place of comfort for me. I have learned much and hope to learn even more. This forum is special because of the people and the way they handle themselves.
    It is my hope that we can all get along. You and I may never be best friends. However we can all be members of this forum and enjoy it.
    It's not what you achieve in life...It's what you overcome!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Lakeport NY and/or the nearest hotel
    I pretty well said my peace (intentional mis-spelling there) on this matter in the 'thoughts and feelings' thread, However I will reiterate that the Leaders of these forums are the Moderators and Administrators, and they do a daRned good job each and every day.

    Speaking as a one time Moderator, it is NOT an easy job, when a sticky situation comes up. Thankfully there aren't all that many of them. Nearly every one though involves either substitute characters that thinly veil swearing, or religion, unless it is an election year somewhere, and people chime in not thinking of the CoC. Back in the day, and we had a pretty solid group of regulars who knew the rules and who also would edit their posts when we pointed out a violation.

    I'll be watching with interest what the staff comes up with on this matter:

    Current Mod/Admin staff, keep up the good work, it is greatly appreciated!

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