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Thread: Question on shellac

  1. #1

    Question on shellac

    Planning to grain fill, I used shellac as a wash coat on Mahogany as a prior step. After doing so, I realized that it may not have been dewaxed. The shellac was Zinsser Bulseye and did not indciate dewaxed on the can. Planned on using Laquer as the final finish.

    How large of mistake is this?

    Thanks
    Sal
    Sal Cangialosi

  2. #2
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    THIS TEXT HAS BEEN CHANGED. DUE TO ERRONEOUS INFORMATION IN THE PREVIOUS TEXT FROM YOURS TRULY.

    I have two "Zinsser Bulls Eye" products:

    1) One says, "Seal Coat." This is a dewaxed shellac. It is made to use as an undercoat for almost anything. It can also be used as a finish coat shellac.

    2) The other says, "Shellac." This does contain wax. It is a finish coat. My understanding is that it is difficult or impossible to use other finishes over it. Other posts, later in this thread, discuss that topic. I have never tried to use another product over the shellac which contains wax.

    I sincerely hope that I did not cause anyone a problem.

    Enjoy,

    JimB
    Last edited by Jim C Bradley; 10-27-2011 at 12:51 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim C Bradley View Post
    Zinsser is what Bulseye calls their de-waxed shellac. You didn't goof. It makes an excellent seal. It makes a lousy fill.

    The preceeding is from a guy who does use Zinsser and shellac. In fact he used it today, yesterday, the day before and the day before that. He is also a guy who does not have a lot of finishing experience.

    Enjoy,

    JimB

    My son, Glenn, uses Zinsser quite a bit.
    Jim, Zinsser is the brand name. Bullseye is a product name.

    Zinsser sells "Seal Coat", which is indeed a dewaxed shellac, per the tech data sheet:

    http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/t...ealer_2010.pdf

    They also sell "Bullseye Shellac", which does have wax in it, as I understand things. (Although the spray can version does not, also as I understand it.) However, in their tech data sheet, they only caution about using it under polyurethanes.

    http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/t...h%20Sealer.pdf

    Sal, I think I'd use denatured alcohol to wipe off as much of the shellac as you can, followed by a wipe-down of mineral spirits to remove any remaining wax. Then I'd use a lacquer sanding sealer (or just plain lacquer) to seal the pores on the mahogany. A few coats of sealer, light sanding, then a few coats of the final lacquer should do the trick.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
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  4. #4
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    you can cover over the waxed shellac with dewaxed and then use your lacquer with no trouble..no need to wash of the other, if you want to light sand the first coat of shellac and then recover with seal coat you can do that as well.. and 2coats of lacquer sealer is best before scuff sanding to ensure you have some thickness before hiting it with the clear coats of lacquer,,
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
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  5. #5
    Thanks all for the replies. Should have mentioned, I purchase but did not yet use Behlen's grain fill. Wanted to try this out and understood that the wash coat of Shellac should be done before the grain fill.

    For te shellac wash coat, I diluted it with an equal part of denatured alcohol. wiped it on and scuff sanded after it dried.

    Seems from the replies that safe/easy approach is to get dewaxed shellac and go give it another wash coat. or am I taking too much of a chance.

    I can test on scrap; but not if the probem shows up over the long haul.

    Thanks again
    Sal Cangialosi

  6. #6
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    Jim, what you have is indeed the dewaxed Zinsser product. They make another shellac product (the one that Sal has) that does have wax in it.

    Larry, thanks for the tip about putting dewaxed over waxed shellac. That's a good one to know.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
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  7. #7
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    Right On Vaughn,

    My other can says, "Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, Traditional Finish and Sealer." It has a yellow label with a white band at the top. Guess I never noticed the "Zinsser" up at the top. It does have wax.

    Guess that ruins my George Washington "Never told a lie" image.

    Enjoy,

    JimB

    I went back and changed my original entry. I do not want anyone to read what I erroneously wrote there. The new information there should be correct since I have a can of "Shellac" and a can of "Seal Coat" shellac sitting on my desk as I write this.

    The Seal Coat can is sort of a "woodsy" color with a white band at the top. The Shellac can is a bright yellow with a white band at the top.
    Last edited by Jim C Bradley; 10-27-2011 at 12:59 PM.
    First of all you have to be smarter than the machine.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim C Bradley View Post
    ...Guess that ruins my George Washington "Never told a lie" image...
    No worries. That image is a myth, but I'm sure you already knew that, seeing as how you and George went to high school together. (Or at least that's what Glenn told me.)

    The image is overblown anyway. You know all the cute girls like a little "bad boy" in their men.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
    When the weird get going, they start their own forum. - Vaughn McMillan

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  9. #9
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    Glad this came up cause this zinsser crowd really make a mess of their labels in my humble opinion. They could be straitforward and i am sure they would get more customers having a better experience. Sal you aint alone in this ( they use the word sealer on the waxed stuff can. ) why not put wax nowax.
    In Canada i cannot tell you how many stores i have been in checked for this stuff and come across a variety of labels and been so confused as to put it back on shelf and leave. One should not have to onsult the safety charts to establish wax no wax issue.
    Apologies for rant but this type of marketing spoils our hobby.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
    cheers

  10. #10
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    Rob,

    I am with you. I think the labeling is confusing. I think the product is great.

    Hey, it took that youngster, Vaughn, to set me straight.
    It is pretty bad when the younger generation (Vaughn and Glenn) have to give advice to their elders (me) who are supposed to be full of wisdom. That word is wisdom---It starts with a "W" not a "B."

    Enjoy,

    JimB
    First of all you have to be smarter than the machine.
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