dyeing pen blanks, need your help UPDATE

Bob Gibson

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I need to make a whole bunch of black and red blanks. I have no clue how to do it. The pens that I'm going to make are shotgun pens and will have either a black or red top. I'm thinking that I could use something like RIT dye after the blank is turned ????? Will the dye be affected (wash out or run) when I put on the finish??? The blanks will be maple. I've been using shelawax or mylands. I'm trying to make these as inexpensive as possible so blackwood, ebony and other exotic woods are not possible. Any ideas???????
 
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Bob for the Black part I would use something like a red oak or a walnut, then use the vinegar and steel wool for the red part I would use any clear wood maybe even bass wood and then use trans tint dye. The reason why I am suggesting bass wood is that it is inexpensive and very clear grained.
 
The Rit dye will tend to fade pretty quickly with use. I agree with Don's suggestion to use Transtint dye, but I think I'd use it for the black parts, too. Hard maple would also work for the red parts (or black parts for that matter) and have good durability. It's also nicely close-grained with no visible pores. Walnut or oak would also dye well and be nice and durable, and have a more open-grained look if that's your preference. :thumb:
 
Thanks for the ideas. Much appreciated.

OK Rit is out. I'll go to woodcraft or rockler in the morning to get some transtint. What about Dan's recent thread. He uses analine dye? would that be harder or easier to use?

I'm guessing that I should apply the dye after the blank is turned. Does it make a difference with using water or alcohol a to dilute the dye? Will I have a problem with the blank cracking or shrinking if I use water? The turned blank is pretty thin. I also wonder about raising the grain. If I have to sand it after the dye will I sand off the dye?
I'm concerned that if I try the steel wool and vinegar method that it being caustic it will affect the brass tube?

I like the idea about using red oak. It's super inexpensive and I can see how the darker color of the wood will work better with black dye.:thumb: I have a lot of clear maple so I'll try the red dye on that. Basswood seems like it may be too soft for what I need it for.

If all works out I'll need to make quite a few of these. Any ideas on how to speed up the dying and production process will be appreciated as well:)
 
Simply using felt tip markers is almost a standard method talked about on the pen forums. I have done it once when I needed to make a special shade of green for a customer. Worked fine.
 
Unfortunately, the felt tip markers will also fade over time. It's also more difficult to get an even color with them. Transtint is pretty expensive, but a little goes a long way. I'm still using bottles I bought 3 or 4 years ago, and I was dying bowls and hollow forms instead of pens.

Bob, I'd use alcohol as the carrier for the Transtint, because it'll raise the grain a lot less. It also dries much faster. You may still get a little grain-raising, but when that happens to me, I sand very lightly with 600 grit to knock the grain back down, then add another coat of dye. It usually only takes one or two of these cycles to get the grain to stay put. I do the same routine when I'm using water as the dye carrier, but it just takes longer between coats to dry, and more repetitions to get the grain all the way down.

Aniline dyes are good and colorfast, although the ones I've seen need to be mixed with water, so you're back to the whole grain-raising issue.
 
Thanks Vaughn !!!!:thumb: Transtint and alcohol it is.

I thought about corian Larry. Since the hole i have to drill thru the blank is 9/16" I need a blank cut to alt least 1" square. Maybe even 1-1/8". The corian that I've seen is only 1/2" thick. I don't always get my holes perfectly centered and end up cracking the blank.
 
Unfortunately, the felt tip markers will also fade over time. It's also more difficult to get an even color with them. Transtint is pretty expensive, but a little goes a long way. I'm still using bottles I bought 3 or 4 years ago, and I was dying bowls and hollow forms instead of pens.

Bob, I'd use alcohol as the carrier for the Transtint, because it'll raise the grain a lot less. It also dries much faster. You may still get a little grain-raising, but when that happens to me, I sand very lightly with 600 grit to knock the grain back down, then add another coat of dye. It usually only takes one or two of these cycles to get the grain to stay put. I do the same routine when I'm using water as the dye carrier, but it just takes longer between coats to dry, and more repetitions to get the grain all the way down.

Aniline dyes are good and colorfast, although the ones I've seen need to be mixed with water, so you're back to the whole grain-raising issue.
I mix aniline dyes with the least amount of water that will dissolve them. Then I use Isopropyl Alcohol 99% pure as the carrier, not the dreaded Methyl Hydrate.
 
...I'm concerned that if I try the steel wool and vinegar method that it being caustic it will affect the brass tube?...

Missed this part earlier, but I don't think the vinegar would cause any problems with the brass. Might discolor it, but it's not likely that anyone will be looking inside the barrel to see if it's shiny brass.
 
Well I've learned a few things about dyeing.

First is dont mix and store dye in a snap on ziplock lid type container. When you snap it open the dye flys all over the place.:doh: Second, don't put it on the blank heavy while the lathe is running. My shirt looks like I was riding a bike with no rear fender through a mud puddle.:doh:I have so much dye on my hands and face I could be an Al Jolsen stand in.:eek:

I tried the black transtint on maple and red oak. not really happy with the results. especially on the oak.:( even sanded to 1500 the oak took the stain very unevenly. even after 4 applications. The maple just wouldn't get dark enough.
I haven't tried it on walnut yet. I'll give it a shot in the morning.

The process seems way too slow. I may have a large number of the shotgun pens to make and if I have to dye them and wait for the dye to dry I'll never get them done. It will probably be less expensive and more productive if I just try and find a good deal on a supply of blackwood or ebony. :dunno:
 
Ditto what Don said on applying on the lathe. I'd use about 2 square inches of paper towel or old t-shirt material, fold it into a pad, then wipe it on in the direction of the grain.

I think part of the reason you're not getting the maple dark enough is that it's sanded too finely. If it's too smooth, the dye can't penetrate the wood. Also, if you happened to sand at a relatively high speed (200 rpm or so), chances are you've actually burnished the wood and closed the pores, which will also keep the dye from soaking in. See what happens if you only sand to 320 or 400, and do it slowly. (Preferably by hand, in the direction of the grain. It should just take a couple or three swipes.)

Lastly, you might try using less alcohol and more dye in your mix. I usually start out with a pretty light mix, but then add dye to it until I get the color saturation I want.

Oh yeah, one more tip: If you have light-colored hair, don't run your fingers through your hair when you're using turquoise dye unless you're going for that punk rock look. :headbang: (Don't ask me how I know this.)
 
I'll have to reply to my own post to add more words to my post above, since I have no idea how to get the words to post under the pics.:dunno:

Anyway one of the reasons I haven't been much assistance in this regard is I have no recollection specifically how I produced the colours. I suspect India Ink was used for the black. The red I have 2 sources, ColorFX, a liquid dye concentrate distributed by a company Wood Essence Dist. in Saskatoon SK.
http://www.woodessence.com/ColorFX-Dye-Trial-12-Color-Kits-P51C12.aspx

I also have used http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=20082&cat=1,190,42942 It may have been either this or the one above. The carrier I always use is Isopropyl Alcohol 99% pure. I never use or would consider water as a carrier of the dye. Not to say that's the better way, just my way! The Isopropyl can be obtained from Farm Feed Mill stores or the like.

I always dye on my lathe, it may not be running, but at least I can rotate it by hand as I apply the dye, always with a small artists brush I might add.

If you would care to discuss further by phone or Skype, I would be pleased to talk further with you. PM your phone number, and a good time to call.
 
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