The Past, Present and the Future of woodworking

the methods that are used to make a piece of furniture in todays world, we are probably over thinking this stuff. we tend to think that others will care in the years to come and actually the way this world has changed it will probably be meaningless.. even in todays world the desire for old antiques and old ways are falling off considerable and the family traditions are going as fast or faster as well.so in this thread vote and voice your veiws of where that piece that is made today is gonna be tomorrow or in the next generation, will it matter anymore like the antiques we have looked back on today.

I know stuff I've built for my daughter will be passed on to my grand-daughter. And I hope my grand-daughter will do the same. I'm building a bed and dresser for her that I'm fairly certain will go to my great grand-child if there is one.

For my part, nearly all I have built to date has been for friends and family and I think that personal connection will insure that the pieces will go at least one more generation before hitting the scrap pile of history and wannabees. I recently sold my first piece on line, a small jewelry box. Oddly enough, to a fellow I worked with some years back who was looking for something unique for his bride. So, I really can't speak to what fate my work may meet as the personal connection trumps work sold to strangers. I'd like to think that the fact that my stuff is 'real' wood and built more solidly than the run-of-the-mill stuff sold in stores would mean something, but I just don't know. Most people don't seem to place as high a value on quality construction any more. They gladly pay $600 for a Pottery Barn piece that is painted pine or poplar with poor joinery and binding drawers and doors. I'm a bit baffled by that.

i do think that the stuff we have made for family could be passed down with a desire to have them from the offspring. as long as the next generation respects things of that nature, i have seen some new generation that have no respect for grandpa's table or chair..and that is what bothers me. i know it shouldnt, i am not gonna be here anyway.. but on the other side of things this trend be it good or bad can reflect in how we go about building the next piece.

I would like to think that some of the pieces I've created will stand the test of time. Frankly, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, either way. I've made some good stuff and, while I'd like for my children and grandchildren to have an appreciation for them, I have no control over that. We have many true antiques in our home and, when they have been pointed out to children, the response is usually a blank stare. Maybe, in time, they will understand.

Im pretty certain my son will hold on to every piece Ive made him, and probably pass them down if he no longer needs them.
Hes cheap, so getting free furniture that he has a say in is something hes not going to give up anytime soon.
My spoiled brat other child is wondering where her dining set and bedroom set are.

rennie-I believe the average person(average anyone) who is buying a small coffee table, or other similar piece, want to see it and touch it before they commit to purchase.
Most dont worry about joinery, just how it looks and if the color is right for their room.
Im sure if you had a showroom full of your furniture, and had time to explain the craftsmanship compared to dowel built stuff, more would purchase your pieces instead.

Some of what we've built for friends and family - or on commission, etc. - might get passed down for a few generations. At least I hope so!

Rant on:
The commercial stuff that's available today is likely to be junked even before the next generation will be ready for it. Today's commercial stuff, for the most part, has degenerated into little better than junk, and it's designed for ease and economy of manufacturing, not for durability, style, or build quality.

Bearing in mind that Duncan-Phyffe, Stickley, Roycrofters, etc. were all the commercial stuff of their time - but times were different, then. Quality made your reputation then - not price or convenience. Our marketdisintegratedrated significantly to where now it's mainly about profit instead of quality.

Okay, rant off...

Jim DeLaney said:

... Rant on:
The commercial stuff that's available today is likely to be junked even before the next generation will be ready for it. ...

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And, it's cheap - relatively speaking - so folks can replace it when they get "BORED" with it, without any hit to the budget! When I started building better pieces and found I enjoyed it, many people raved about my stuff - some winning prizes. The problem became, as I talked with people who wanted a custom piece, is that they have no idea of the value of a piece of custom furniture. If I can't charge the true value of a custom piece of furniture, I'd rather just keep building as a hobby. I had long email discussions with a respected woodworker whose philosophy is that he knows he can't charge more than furniture store prices, so that's what he does. I'm not going there! I'd rather do what I want when I want and get what I can when I can.

I think it will depend very much on the type of furniture we are talking about, cheap furniture made of chip board and melamine, or chip board and veneer will not withstand much time. It is not made to last and it is cheap. Some other more expensive furniture made of chipboard and better veneers may last longer but it will decay and eventually perish.

Massif wood furniture, well designed and made, will stay for as long as the owner /heir wants, and here taste, room, and trend have a lot of influence. Custom made furniture made by some recognised maker/designer will stay for a lot longer due to the added value.

One should ask oneself many questions about this, for instance an antique piece of furniture is pricey because of the wood used, the craftmanship, the design or just because it is old? According to a friend of mine who owns an antique shop, a piece that is less than a 100 years old is not an antique, it is only a vintage piece.

Not an easy debate this one, and with no a definite ending or so I think

so using some of the logic here, we should just make the pieces of good quality rather go to the trouble to do processes by hand instead of machine for instance. or use plywood instead of glueing up panels where possible. the old furniture shops used plywood a fair amount when they had it and could.. kinda like not walking to work if you can ride.

Bill Arnold said:

...When I started building better pieces and found I enjoyed it, many people raved about my stuff - some winning prizes. The problem became, as I talked with people who wanted a custom piece, is that they have no idea of the value of a piece of custom furniture.

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Yeah - I've had people tell me thay can buy a nice (chair, desk, whatever) for way less than it'd cost me for the materials to make a quality piece. I just tell them to go ahead and buy it, then. It is a hobby for me, but that doesn't mean it has to be a money-losing hobby!

Bill Arnold said:

...If I can't charge the true value of a custom piece of furniture, I'd rather just keep building as a hobby. I had long email discussions with a respected woodworker whose philosophy is that he knows he can't charge more than furniture store prices, so that's what he does. I'm not going there! I'd rather do what I want when I want and get what I can when I can.

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I refuse to lower prices to meet those of a store. I'll build for myself, or for gifts, but NEVER will I intentionally cut a price just to meet somebody else's. I'm kinda waiting for Charlie Plesums to weigh in here, 'cause I know he builds quality stuff, and asks 'quality' prices for it. It'll be interesting to hear his take on this.

larry merlau said:

so using some of the logic here, we should just make the pieces of good quality rather go to the trouble to do processes by hand instead of machine for instance. or use plywood instead of glueing up panels where possible. the old furniture shops used plywood a fair amount when they had it and could.. kinda like not walking to work if you can ride.

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Quality plywood (definitely not that Chi-Borg stuff!!!) shouldn't be a problem, Larry, so long as it's used well, with edges wrapped or hidden. Nothing wrong with machine cut mortises, dovetails, miters, or whatever, either. (I even wish I had/could afford a Festool Domino for my mortise & tenon stuff.) It's when CNC type production comes into play, with 'sheet optimizing' without regard to grain, etc. that it becomes a problem. Look at your "Drawer" thread, for example, Larry: Will most commercial shops - let alone the CNC shops - take the time, effort, and CARE to make their drawer fronts like you're wanting to do? NO! - not a any price.

I dont care how well made or how well the craftsmanship is on any piece of furniture....if its abused it will not last.
When I got married, I furnished my 3 bedroom apt with Levitz furniture. All melamine, particle board covered stuff, the 80s formica looking stuff.
when I gave it away a few years ago, it was still in mint condition. Im sure it would have lasted 100 years in my home.
Just because something is made with inexpensive materials, doesnt mean it wont survive a century.

I understand now what a quality piece of woodworking is, but that doesnt mean the inexpensive products wont last just as long as long as they are properly cared for.

When I got out of the Navy 40 some years ago I made a Bar for my Dad. He had seen one in Hawaii when he visited me there when I was stationed there and I knew he wanted one so I decided to surprise him with it. Now fast forward to 7 years ago after my mom passed away. I was selling the house and in the process I asked my sons if there was anything they wanted as a keep sake. My oldest son said grandpa's bar. I told him that I made the bar and he said he didn't know that and that it would make it even more special. I have had my kids and nieces and nephews and me for specific pieces that I have made so I know that at least some of what I have done will make it for a while after I am gone. Also I have sold a few pieces on commission that I hope will be around long after I am gone.

What an interesting subject. I answered "something they will hand down" thinking in terms of what I've seen being built by the people of this forum.

While personally I've not tackled anything big like a lot of you, I still take pride in my work and I don't take any shortcuts and I try to use "natural" woods, not pressed this and that.

I enjoy the feeling of completing a project in which I've hopefully built a quality piece of whatever. I want quality in what I build as well as what I buy. I went the cheap route in my early years. Even before I knew about woodworking myself, I just didn't like the quality of the crap I was buying, but it still cost a pretty penny.

What will the furniture of the future be? I don't think there will be enough wood in the world to supply the people on earth, so what will furniture be made of in 2050, 2100 and beyond?

As Yoda would say, "Ponder this I must."

I think in general most of my projects so far have been "just furniture" and built for that purpose. I've got some pieces that were built for the style my wife and I like, that doesn't mean my kids or theirs will like the style. I've got a couple of pieces I've had to re-design/re-purpose due to technology changes, like my old entertainment center for example. It's in an armoire style, built for a big box TV, which are no longer popular. I re-purposed it into a dry bar with a drop lid where the TV used to go. Has lots of CD sized drawers which are no longer around. Much like the old telephone chairs of yesteryear (when only one phone was in the house) how many of us have one of those anymore?

The cedar chest, some tables, and probably my wife's desk will be something of use in the future and will be of better quality. I could see those being handed down, even if the best construction techniques weren't used. Funny I have several pieces we consider antiques, but even those were glued and nailed with a veneer face overlaying plywood.

I know that just about everything my wife and I bought 40 years ago from decent furniture stores is pretty much long gone, broken and forgotten except my wifes dresser.
The antique furniture that my mother passed down to me that was built 300 years ago is still going strong. I hope that everything that I have built for my kids and grand kids will be passed on thru the generations as my mothers furniture was. I know some of my kids will really cherish forever it and a couple will not really appreciate it at all..
I can only imagine the look of astonishment on the guys face who built the 300 yearold grandfather clock in my living room and what he would say if he could see it today. Holy Moses, that thing is still around

Bob Gibson said:

I can only imagine the look of astonishment on the guys face who built the 300 yearold grandfather clock in my living room and what he would say if he could see it today. Holy Moses, that thing is still around

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He'd probably point out all the flaws (that only he knows of).

One of the Science Fiction books I read many years ago had a sentence that went something like this: She knew he was very rich. He was wearing a ring made of real wood.

That sounds sort of far fetched. However, consider the price of walnut now to 30 years ago. Think about the kinds of wood that have gone into exotic prices. The price of the ring, above, is just an extension of this.

Do you really think Sam Maloof furniture is ever going to become "junk?"

Personally, I do not like old furniture. I do like beautiful furniture old or new. However if I were offered two equally beautiful pieces of wood furniture, one old and one new, I would choose the old because it is part of history. However (again), the old would have to be beautiful, in very good condition, and something I wanted for what it is. Of course I would say the same thing for something new.

Enjoy,

JimB

Too many factors for a simple answer. As mentioned, there is some furniture, that is pretty much useless today. How many people still have dressing/makeup tables, water closets, or the previously mentioned phone chairs? Then you have style and use changes (wardrobes went to entertainment centers, then the tech changed, and they were the wrong size for huge tv's), as well as quality of builds. I was looking at taking my great aunts old chest of drawers my mom has. Solidly built frame, but the drawers are 1/8" material. Lightweight drawers (which could be changed) and then I found out it was too wide for the location I had, so it is going to someone moving or goodwill. Yet I still use the chest and dresser from my grandmothers bedroom set.
Is it useful? Can I stand to live with it (good memories or bad, style etc). It isn't the furniture that is important but what the leave within us for us to pass down.

Randal Stevenson said:

Too many factors for a simple answer. It isn't the furniture that is important but what the leave within us for us to pass down.

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that is one very strong statement Randal, the stuff that remains in our families homes after we are gone is there because of what has been instilled in it and there hearts.