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Thread: Youth ...umemployment and education

  1. #1
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    Youth ...umemployment and education

    A topic that has my interest and attention and goes back many years for me is the aspect of youth being unemployed.

    I have always had sympathy for this cause and been an advocate of trying to be creative about how to change the situation but that was very relevant in Africa and especially so when you have the majority of the population not getting an equal education.

    However that has since changed and i no longer live exposed to this issue. However through the course of my business career this problem seems to permeat across the whole world not just Africa and with the last 5 years of economic fall out has become a bigger issue in many countries.

    But last Friday i got insight into something which had me thinking.

    Last Friday i got to tour the University of Toronto. This is one of Canadas top Universities without doubt and compares well in the world not just Canada.

    Now due to my sons desire to play football at University we ended up on a private tour with the "chosen few" that are recruit prospects for the next year.

    Great one would say except i aint no sport nut and i am one of the parents that have their feet on the ground about my sons sports future.

    Well i find out that the time commitment required to be part of the Varsity football team is around 30 to 35 hours per week. Yeah shock and awe hit me.

    Then I get this booklet that has been printed about the team and its goals and achievements etc. All looks fine and dandy so i start looking through the pictures and notice something


    There are 46 players in the team 10 rookies to watch so that presents a squad of 56.

    So i start looking at the degrees these guys are studying and then it hit me.

    Now you gotta know that a 4 year degree in Canada is going to set you back around $ 80K or more give or take unless the person lives at home and commutes to school each day.

    So the business man in me is thinking mmmmmmh thats quiet an amount to end up coming out of school with and looking to pay off so one best be looking to study something that is gonna pay well and in demand or at least thought to be going to be in demand in 4 years time. A crap shoot at best if you think about it.


    So i think well what are the current team players studying. And this is where my wheels came off.

    Here is the list before i stopped bothering

    History 10
    Political Science 7
    Arts and science 5
    Physical Education 5
    Humanities 3
    Urban Studies 3
    Human Biology 2
    Industrial Engineering 1
    Business Management 1
    Paramedics 1
    Forestry Conservation 1
    Classics 1


    Now i got to thinking what are these guys going to do when the degree is finished to get a job?

    Out of the whole bunch in all the companies i am connected to i think i can see potential for employment for around 4 maybe 5 out of 46 in the squad that i looked at.

    I have no idea where all the history and political science guys are gonna get employment on such a scale that they gonna get a payback on the 80K


    Seems society is saying go an get an education. But i dont see that any old education is gonna land them a job.


    I told my son afterwards if you look at the numbers of your generation that are signing up for a degree and rather go do a trade like a plumber or HVAC guy where the average age in the trade right now is greater than 57 years old seems to me you will be able to do your apprenticeship and start your own contracting company with the 80K and be able to have a way better life and get a return.

    He would like to take on Engineering. Frankly i dont see how he does a degree like engineering and spend 35 hours a week playing football. Might have believed it was possible if say there were 5 or 7 wanna be engineers on the team.


    Anyhow its not surprising to me these kids are disillusioned and unemployed if this is what they are investing their education money on.

    BTW in Canada the scholarships for athletes are regulated so its not as if these are all CFL or wanna be NFL hopefuls that have been "bought" by universities.

    Education without demand for it or a field to practice it in is pretty much meaningless unless you part of the rich that can afford to simply be "intellectual".

    Then we gripe when China is taking the jobs away. But they got 200 million kids in elementary and high school and who knows how many in Universities and i dont see them all studying history or political science.

    Oh and to add to this issue over the holidays we meet a young lady that has just graduated from the University with a Degree in Metalurgy. Now i am thinking wow what a star. So my Mil sits down to talk to her. Mil by the way worked in the gold mining industry for most of her life and was married to a mining engineer that ran some of the biggest gold mines in SA so she knows a thing or two about metalurgy.

    She could not get a word of sense out of this young lady who could only complain that she had not been able to find a job and what they were offering she was not prepared to work for.

    Seems she wanted to start at a Salary of 80K per year. No kidding.

    After Mil said to me she dont know squat about metalurgy and if she does she aint letting anyone else know that she does.


    I cannot help but think some of this sheds light on why there are so many of these young people unemployed. Pretty sad in my view.
    cheers

  2. #2
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    My dad calls them "educated dummies". Our guidance department is so guilty of this. Inflate their numbers to look like 90% of the graduating class is going to college. 25% may graduate. 20% probably had no business going in the first place as they were not prepared mentally. I keep trying to point out to my guidance counselors that trade school is not a bad idea. I keep asking them, who do you call on when your roof leaks, your furnace/ac quits, your car doesn't start, etc. Not their 4 year students. Enough, I will get off of my soapbox.
    Jon

    God and family, the rest is icing on the cake. I'm so far behind, I think I'm in first place!

    Host of the 2015 FAMILY WOODWORKING GATHERING

  3. #3
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    I understand what you are talking about. I have a niece who graduated from a very prestigious university with a degree in religious studies with a load of debt. I never could understand that one. I got my degree in education from a state school with no debt and have worked everyday.

    My son is in 5th grade and has never had any inclination of going on to college. Since he has been little he would ask how much school do you have to have to do something. He loves working with his hands and doing mechanical things. At the high school he'll attend they have a very good machine shop program. We go over to the high school a couple times per week during football season and he always wants to look in the shop. We have a technology center near that has several industrial/mechanical programs that are 2 year deals. I'm going to push him to go that route. He'll make way more than I make.
    Last edited by John Daugherty; 01-19-2012 at 02:13 AM.

  4. #4
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    College football is a business that has the same goal all businesses have, to make money. It is not to educate our youth. The University of Washington football team has hired some new football assistants and their salary is in the range of 500K to 700K a year. It is projected that the total amount spent for the UW football coaches salaries will easily exceed 4.5 million dollars. That is only salaries. Can you imagine the cost of infrastructure (stadiums, training rooms, practice fields, etc.)? How can they do this? From the new PAC 12, 12-year, 3 billion dollar TV deal. And how is the TV industry able to do this? Because we watch college football so much that advertisers are willing to pay big bucks to the TV industry.

    I enjoy watching football, but part of me realizes that something is wrong here and I am probably part of the problem.
    Last edited by Bill Satko; 01-18-2012 at 08:58 PM.
    “When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.” - John Ruskin
    “Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” - Oscar Wilde

  5. #5
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    Seems like we have had the same soapbox Jonathan. It's not just the guidance people who need to hear and understand it--how about the elected officials who make the decisions with no experience to draw from?
    ________

    Ron

    "Individual commitment to a group effort--that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work."
    Vince Lombardi

  6. #6
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    My HS had a good vocational program that started early, like our junior year. Many of the guys I graduated are successful builders and mechanics today. My kids HS didn't even have a shop class, everything was geared towards them going to college. My kids were told "you need to go to college". They listened, felt that is what they needed to do, but never found it a good direction. Each being out on their own have had to struggle and learn some hard lessons, but neither feel that college is still the answer.

    Honestly, I'm not a believer that everyone needs to go to college, the "world needs ditch diggers" too as my dad used to say. I think we want more for our kids and try to give them a step up, even me. As parents we do what even goes against our own beliefs to make a better life for them, yet...you can lead a horse to water, but...(well, you know the rest). Again it's that you want more for them than you had.

    Like the young lady Rob spoke of, several of their friends that have finished college are not working in any career that they studied for. They either couldn't get in at the level they wanted to start at or refused to start at the bottom, just not willing to be a "ditch digger"

    With the baby-boomers heading towards retirement, there's going to be a large void to fill in the trades, and I still don't see a big push to fill those jobs. Mike Rowe has some good information on his site and is pushing for training programs to fill those jobs. However, unless there is the drive and desire to take them, they will go unfilled too.
    Darren

    To a small child, the perfect granddad is unafraid of big dogs and fierce storms but absolutely terrified of the word “boo.” – Robert Brault

  7. #7
    It's sad people don't think these college degrees and associated employment opportunities through BEFORE they go after them. I'd hate to invest 4 years of time, work and monies only to realize after the fact I wasn't employable.
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 01-19-2012 at 03:38 AM. Reason: spelling
    Ken
    ------



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Satko View Post
    I enjoy watching football, but part of me realizes that something is wrong here
    Bill, you're right, something is deeply wrong. In spite of all that money, there are only about ten or twelve schools, nationwide, that turn a profit on their athletics programs. Most of them lose, and lose big. I do have some sympathy for those kids who wouldn't otherwise get to college, but if I had a nickle for every student I taught who thought he didn't need to study because he was going to the NFL or the NBA, I'd have a much bigger shop...

    As far as the liberal arts majors go, most of them end up in the business world. They're what the business world actually wants: people who can read, write, communicate, and work in teams smoothly, at a high level. This hasn't changed in decades- it's been this way since well before the G.I. bill changed Universities after WWII.

    If jobs ever come back for specialized machinists and the like, Universities will climb all over themselves to offer courses. Every University I've ever seen tries hard to meet market demands. After all, if students don't sign up, courses don't fly, and degree programs don't stay on the books. Universities simply can't afford to keep them.

    But I'm afraid we're going to have this difficult athletics model for a while. As long as Alumni demand it (which they do) and officials strive to fund it (which they do), it's just going to keep going...

    Thanks,

    Bill

    (ps. Whoops. There aren't twelve schools that turn a profit. There are 14: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5490686
    My apologies for the error.
    Last edited by Bill Lantry; 01-19-2012 at 12:04 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Satko View Post
    College football is a business that has the same goal all businesses have, to make money. It is not to educate our youth. The University of Washington football team has hired some new football assistants and their salary is in the range of 500K to 700K a year. It is projected that the total amount spent for the UW football coaches salaries will easily exceed 4.5 million dollars. That is only salaries. Can you imagine the cost of infrastructure (stadiums, training rooms, practice fields, etc.)? How can they do this? From the new PAC 12, 12-year, 3 billion dollar TV deal. And how is the TV industry able to do this? Because we watch college football so much that advertisers are willing to pay big bucks to the TV industry.

    I enjoy watching football, but part of me realizes that something is wrong here and I am probably part of the problem.
    Here's a link showing the total budgets for the different conferences. It's an eye opener. http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...h/Budgets.aspx

    Bill, those salaries are very common in the SEC. Saban at Alabama made over 6 million last year and I think Mack Brown made over 5 million at Texas. Those are the two highest paid college coaches in the country. Being in UT country, that's Tennessee not Texas, UT's budget was over 100 million last year. My nephew just turned 16 in August. He spent all last summer collecting scrap metal to sale so he could get two season tickets for him and his Dad. They cost a little over 600 bucks for the upper deck!

    To swerve back on topic for a second.

    I completely agree with Johnathan, I think schools try to push way to many kids into thinking college is the only way. I can't speak for everywhere, but we do a very poor job in the voc/ed programs where I'm at IMHO.

  10. #10
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    I get angry when I hear politicians say that "everyone" should have the opportunity to go to college. Well that clearly can't happen since less than 70% even make it through High School to begin with. For those that do go on, about 60% have to take the bonehead classes that HS should have prepped them for. Embarrassing.

    When I went to HS (way back then), you had to prove a proficiency of being an 8th grader to graduate and I just kept scratching my head even then as to why you didn't have to prove you were a 12th grader. I can only imagine it has gone down hill from there.

    I will say, the best thing that ever happened to me in regards to education is that I worked for two years after high school. Back then, girls were not very encouraged to do much more than be PE majors (of course maybe I'd be a bit thinner now days ). However it gave me time to get confidence, realize I could become an Engineer and allowed me to save enough money that I graduated without any student loans. My dorm-mate and I were the "oldies" in the group and while we studied, all the other 18 year olds partied and all ended up on probation their first quarter. Oh wait...did I miss out on all the fun?

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