Sherwin Williams Shurwood precat lacquer

Dave Black

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Location
Central PA
I got tired of using minwax lacquer for my projects and decided to try something else, hopefully better. I went to sherwin williams and they have a whole line of product finishes for professionals. I asked about lacquers and polyurethanes and the guy gave me a gallon of shurwood precat lacquer to try. I did't have to pay a dime for it. I am about ready to start spraying some tables and was wondering how long I can let precat lacquer sit in the spray gun. I know with nitro lacquer I can basically leave it in the gun practically forever. Do I need to clean out the gun between coats, I will probably do 3 coats they may not be all the same day though.
 
I got tired of using minwax lacquer for my projects and decided to try something else, hopefully better. I went to sherwin williams and they have a whole line of product finishes for professionals. I asked about lacquers and polyurethanes and the guy gave me a gallon of shurwood precat lacquer to try. I did't have to pay a dime for it. I am about ready to start spraying some tables and was wondering how long I can let precat lacquer sit in the spray gun. I know with nitro lacquer I can basically leave it in the gun practically forever. Do I need to clean out the gun between coats, I will probably do 3 coats they may not be all the same day though.

Dave,

From the Sherwin Williams web site:


SHER-WOOD® Hi-Bild Pre-Cat Lacquer

SHER-WOOD® Hi-Bild PreCat Lacquer is a fast drying, high performance, higher solids precatalyzed lacquer for the kitchen and bath cabinetry and the general wood finishing market. After catalyzation, it provides 4 months pot life as a PreCat lacquer,.

Don't know if you can use it without catalyst. If you can then I am sure the pot life would be a good bit longer.

Jack
 
I have the non hi bild, which is 6 month pot life, I was wondering if there would be problems leaving it in the spray gun for a couple days while I am spraying.
 
dave i have used SW precat and have left it in the gun during the time i needed it a couple days but usually i take and pour off the remainder into a glass jar and then do rinse of the can and the then spray out some thinner to clean the tips the holes have plugged on me from not doing so.. i have since switched to ml cambell and like there magna lac much better and am going to try there magna max next..
 
I have the non hi bild, which is 6 month pot life, I was wondering if there would be problems leaving it in the spray gun for a couple days while I am spraying.

Here's the Product Data Sheet. It says to clean all equipment immediately after use.

Edit: Larry was posting as I was looking up the PDS. Like him, I have left pre-cat in the gun when I'm spraying multiple items or coats in a day's time. I clean the gun at the end of the day as a precaution.
 
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I didn't think there would be an issue leaving it in the gun for a few hours or overnight but I thought I would ask first, the guy at sherwin williams didn't seem to know. I would like to try ml cambell but as far as I know nobody around here carries it. I looked on their site for a dealer and the closest was 2 hours or more away. I don't recall seeing a place that sells it online.
 
I didn't think there would be an issue leaving it in the gun for a few hours or overnight but I thought I would ask first, the guy at sherwin williams didn't seem to know. I would like to try ml cambell but as far as I know nobody around here carries it. I looked on their site for a dealer and the closest was 2 hours or more away. I don't recall seeing a place that sells it online.

dont you just love it when the sales guy doesnt know his product:( had the same trouble with a SW guy near me and then found the ml cambell products and they knew there product!!
 
I would rather have a salesman who admits that he doesn't know than a salesman who answers with certainty, except his answer is different than the other salesman's answers, and different than the instructions.

I have gone to water based finishes, but I have a friend who uses precat lacquer, and leaves it in the gun "indefinitely." As a pro, he is probably spraying something every few days, but he does not empty the gun.
 
I want to use water borne. I asked sherwin Williams about water borne and they said it wasn't that good but I couldn't refuse the free gallon. If I remember right Charlie uses target em6000. I think that's what I want to try
 
Dave, I used to spray gallons and gallons of SW precat with a 2.5gal pressure pot. I might go a week without spraying and only cleaned the system about every other fillup (and truth be known, I probably missed a few of those) with no problem. I have a pot left over with black lacquer in it, been there for about 3 years now and I just fired it up and shot a small project with it the other day, no problem. Love lacquer. By the way, in case they did not mention, I used to thin mine about 50% for great results.
 
I want to use water borne. I asked sherwin Williams about water borne and they said it wasn't that good but I couldn't refuse the free gallon. If I remember right Charlie uses target em6000. I think that's what I want to try

I have found several vendors that say they have water base lacquer, but most of them suggest sanding between coats for adhesion. If it had the burn-in characteristics that I am looking for in a lacquer, then you wouldn't have to sand between coats. Target lacquer has full burn in. And one of my friends who tried Sherwin Williams water base finish ended up dumping it.

Yes, you are right, that I use Target EM6000 as my water based lacquer, and love it. It is the only finish I buy in 5 gallon quantities. I recently built a web page with the characteristics of the various Target coatings that I use - see www.solowoodworker.com/wood/targetcoatings.html
 
Dave, I used to spray gallons and gallons of SW precat with a 2.5gal pressure pot. I might go a week without spraying and only cleaned the system about every other fillup (and truth be known, I probably missed a few of those) with no problem. I have a pot left over with black lacquer in it, been there for about 3 years now and I just fired it up and shot a small project with it the other day, no problem. Love lacquer. By the way, in case they did not mention, I used to thin mine about 50% for great results.

the instructions said no thinning needed but I thought it went on too thick, I'll thin next time
 
the instructions said no thinning needed but I thought it went on too thick, I'll thin next time

Here is the legal dance... If the vendor says add 30% thinner (or whatever percent) then the vendor has to include that thinner in the VOC (the presumably bad volatile organic compounds). If the vendor says "no thinning needed" then they only have to report the minimal VOC in their actual finish, even if it is as thick as syrup and cannot be sprayed.

When I was using solvent lacquer I added a lot of thinner, and got good results. The thinner doesn't add any value to the final finish - it all evaporates away, but it allows the finish to be sprayed well. Adding more thinner than necessary to get a good spray just wastes thinner and drying time. Not adding enough may keep the finish from flowing smooth.
 
Here is the legal dance... If the vendor says add 30% thinner (or whatever percent) then the vendor has to include that thinner in the VOC (the presumably bad volatile organic compounds). If the vendor says "no thinning needed" then they only have to report the minimal VOC in their actual finish, even if it is as thick as syrup and cannot be sprayed.

When I was using solvent lacquer I added a lot of thinner, and got good results. The thinner doesn't add any value to the final finish - it all evaporates away, but it allows the finish to be sprayed well. Adding more thinner than necessary to get a good spray just wastes thinner and drying time. Not adding enough may keep the finish from flowing smooth.

Thats what I thought. I always thinned the minwax lacquer I was using. I think I'll try some em6000 next time.
 
I use Lacquer at times on my turnings and my experience is limited but what I used for awhile was made by Behlan - brushing lacquer and I sprayed it but it is no longer available or manufactured as I called them. The closet thing is there instrument lacquer which I have not tried......so the Mfg Rep said

So off I went locally and bought some Mohawk water bourne gloss lacquer - I am in Calif which does not sell NC Lacquer - The saleman did not know or understand the concept of "burn in" which should have been my first red flag but I bought a gallon anyway. Took it home and tried some out and I hated the stuff - It does not hold a candle to the Behlan's I was used to using. I gave away the gallon and wrote it off....................

I have not tried the lacquer Charlie has mentioned but I will in the future - He has posted alot in previous threads when I asked about how lacquers work and the information is great.........................try a search on here and hopefully you can find it - I tried but was unable at the moment to find it.............
 
i have got agree with you Dan ..charlie does post alot on here about the facts and its from his own experience that he knows this stuff..not just from the back of a can.. i havnt used water base products and am still hesitant to do so. but if i did have to i would take charlies and few others recommendations as being good products to use..
 
.....I have not tried the lacquer Charlie has mentioned but I will in the future - He has posted alot in previous threads when I asked about how lacquers work and the information is great.........................try a search on here and hopefully you can find it - I tried but was unable at the moment to find it.............

Look at post 10 in this thread. I made a web page with the materials I use, mostly water base from Target Coatings. I was quite happy with solvent lacquer, so was reluctant to change. When I got the same advice to try Target Lacquer from 3-4 of my friends, I gave up and tried it, just to shut them up. I loved it, and haven't gone back.

The one thing I still use nitrocellulose lacquer for is turning. Water base has to have a reaction to burn in and dry. With solvent lacquer, I can hold a rag against the spinning workpiece, and the heat will force drying since all that is required is evaporation of the solvent. If you are spraying your turnings, rather than applying with a rag, the water base lacquer should work like you expect (and I typically clean the spray gun, once per day, in 60-90 seconds)
 
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I have used ML Campbell High Build Clear Spraying Lacquer - Gloss - Nitrocellulose - It is a really good Lacquer and I would buy it again - I can not compare it to much of anything other than the Behlan's I used to buy but I have used most of it up and it builds up nicely - Im guessing it has alot more solids in it that other lacquers on the market - I also cut it with about 10-15% Lacquer thinner prior to spraying it - I used a Lowes bought Kobalt small gravity feed spray gun to use on my wood turnings and it seems to work well also. Pressure I use it around 25-30psi. depending on the thickness of the fluid. I am not sure how correct all of this is but I test spray on some scrap wood and look at the spray pattern for eveness before I go to the project................still learning

I also have a quart can of Deft Brushing Lacquer but have not tried it yet - Ill use it next to see how it works - I suppose you can spray it to - others say this is a good lacquer also.............Ill post again when I try it..........................
 
I have used ML Campbell High Build Clear Spraying Lacquer - Gloss - Nitrocellulose - It is a really good Lacquer and I would buy it again - I can not compare it to much of anything other than the Behlan's I used to buy but I have used most of it up and it builds up nicely - Im guessing it has alot more solids in it that other lacquers on the market - I also cut it with about 10-15% Lacquer thinner prior to spraying it - I used a Lowes bought Kobalt small gravity feed spray gun to use on my wood turnings and it seems to work well also. Pressure I use it around 25-30psi. depending on the thickness of the fluid. I am not sure how correct all of this is but I test spray on some scrap wood and look at the spray pattern for eveness before I go to the project................still learning

I also have a quart can of Deft Brushing Lacquer but have not tried it yet - Ill use it next to see how it works - I suppose you can spray it to - others say this is a good lacquer also.............Ill post again when I try it..........................

I could not see the difference in the brands of nitrocellulose lacquer - the technology was so mature that they all seemed the same to me (unlike the new technology of water based finishes where each vendor is different).

Deft calls itself a brushing lacquer because it contains a small amount of retarder so it dries more slowly, and the brush strokes have a chance to flow level before they dry. In humid weather I would add a retarder to regular lacquer, so it would dry more slowly and have less chance of capturing moisture in the finish (which led to blushing - a white cloudiness).

If you do get blushing, spray another coat (I would make it slightly thinner) so that the new coat would quickly burn into the white layer, and allow the moisture to evaporate before the finish dries. Some people say to spray pure lacquer thinner, but that just created a mess for me, and destroyed the previous coats - I never sprayed lacquer more dilute than 50-50.
 
Charlie................thanks for the additional information - I have tried on some turning projects where I have sprayed to thick in some spots to correct it by sparying Lacquer thinner (several times over and over if necessary) - once in awhile it worked and alot of times your right it made a mess of things - It also for some reason took a very long time to set up................................

I have not learned to use retarder yet but I live in southern Calif and it is usually dry or dry heat depending on the time of year - I simply just add a bit of Lacquer thinner and adjust the psi - blushing has not been a problem - my problem at time is alligatoring - probably from being to close - or maybe to thick in application. The way I have gotten around it is I made two adjustments 1- approx 6" or so from the surface and 2- I put the lacquer in quart jar and add 10-15% lacquer thinner - this has improved my sparying ...........still learning..............
 
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