Gripe: Shoddy Turnings for Sale

Excellent post Vaughn. You hit the nail on the head in my opinion.

The key that i believe woodworkers need to take away is cost has nothing to do with selling price.

This concept of it took me x hours and the material cost me y etc is meaningless. Its only a reference for how deep in the hole you are.

Vaughn well done you nailed it in every element i can think of.

This last post should be put into a single document as tip on pricing, maybe in a more general sense so it covers all woodworking.

What your over head is and what your material cost is and how many labor hours you have into a piece are all matters of how well you performed in those areas.

Great thread Vaughn.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

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Pricing is the question of the ages. Like you said, it's all over the map, so everybody's mileage will vary. My experience is based on selling in the Los Angeles area. Other areas are different. As an example, Bernie in Goodland Kansas can get about twice the price for a potpourri bowl that I can in Los Angeles. Now Bernie makes a fine potpourri bowl, but I think he'd agree his aren't twice as good as mine. :) It's just what his market can bear. Having an inferior piece priced too high potentially hurts other turners by giving buyers the false impression that the whole turning market is overpriced. Having a quality piece priced too low potentially hurts other turners by undercutting the market.

To refer back again, I think we talked about this too. What about the turning population in a given area? To bring Bernie back into the picture...I'd be willing to be the number of turners in Goodland is a lot less than the per capitia turning number in Southern California. The competition must be fierce! Years ago when I cleaned the bottom of boats, we'd get about $3 a foot. In a few years, the market saturated and the price dropped to $.50. I'd guess that guys in Southern California will drop a price just to sell something, where a legitimate artist maintains his price based on actual value.
 
To refer back again, I think we talked about this too. What about the turning population in a given area? To bring Bernie back into the picture...I'd be willing to be the number of turners in Goodland is a lot less than the per capitia turning number in Southern California. The competition must be fierce! Years ago when I cleaned the bottom of boats, we'd get about $3 a foot. In a few years, the market saturated and the price dropped to $.50.

I think it's not only a saturation of turners, but also a saturation of competing artwork in general. Glass, ceramics, metal, paintings, photos, etc., and they all compete for the same dollars

I'd guess that guys in Southern California will drop a price just to sell something, where a legitimate artist maintains his price based on actual value.

In my opinion, value is a subjective thing, and it changes with the market. Are the guys in SoCal dropping the price just to sell something, or are they adjusting the price to match the market they're in? If an artist (legit or not) wants to maintain his prices, he can do other things to raise the value of his work. A better venue, better presentation, and better marketing and PR (tooting his own horn) can all increase the perceived value of his work.
 
Yeah Allen your point reminds me of a phrase my Dad used to preach to the union guys in a factory when the owner was faced with either cutting the labor force and costs or closing the plant.

"Half a loaf of bread is better than none at all".

This certainly is a coin with many many sides to it.
 
The only problem I see with that statement is most turners are putting food on the table in some other manner. If they counted on just selling there work they would starve to death.:thumb::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Vaughn,

Your post that begins, "Pricing is the question of the ages..." is excellent. Proper pricing is something that is hard for sellers and artisans to comprehend. Whereas, "I paid $xx.xx and I spent yy hours is easy to understand.

When I hire someone to top or remove some trees I don't ask him/her how much it is going to cost to get the chainsaws sharpened or how much it cost for gasoline to get to my place or how many hours it is going to take. I am going to pay for certain results. If it feels right I do it. I do not care how he gets there or what his insurance costs.

When I purchase art, and I have purchased a lot of it over the years, I look at the piece and I will pay the price or I will not. The first painting that I purchased (approx. 60 years ago) was by a well known artist. To Myrna and me the price was staggering. However, we both loved the piece. We have never regretted spending the money. Looking back: If we had seen that painting at an art fair instead of in a very reputable gallery we would not have purchased it...It would have appeared to be too expletive expensive. We would have missed something we treasure, the artist would have missed our money.

What I am trying to say is: If you are producing a high quality product (artistic and/or functional) display it in the best place that you have access to---probably a gallery. AND have a significant price on it. You are not going to get $35,000 for the chair unless you display it in the proper place and ask $35,000 for it. If you have a really good piece take it to a high-end show or equivalent and ask a good high price for it. $500 for a beautiful turning, sculpture or box is not unreasonable, in fact might even be low under those conditions (the word conditions includes location). I have never been to a street fair where a decent bowl or turning should be sold for under $60---That is the bottom price in So. Calif. Yes there is junk sold for less, sometimes even more.

I am sure that you have not picked up on the fact that I am an egotist. If I had a turning that I felt was good enough to sell, I think my bottom price would be around $275. If it isn't worth $275, it isn't worth the dent it would make in my reputation to sell it. If you don't have pride in it, don't try to sell it.

If you need the money from the woodwork, really challenge yourself to make superior product because, ultimately, that is more fun and it is easier to sell. If it is a hobby, really challenge yourself to make a superior product...something you can be proud of and can give to someone with pride or sell so you can purchase that next tool toy.

LOML is calling me to dinner. I will post this now and come back and clean it up later.

Enjoy,

JimB
 
I am sure that you have not picked up on the fact that I am an egotist. If I had a turning that I felt was good enough to sell, I think my bottom price would be around $275. If it isn't worth $275, it isn't worth the dent it would make in my reputation to sell it. If you don't have pride in it, don't try to sell it.

If you need the money from the woodwork, really challenge yourself to make superior product because, ultimately, that is more fun and it is easier to sell. If it is a hobby, really challenge yourself to make a superior product...something you can be proud of and can give to someone with pride or sell so you can purchase that next tool toy.

JimB

I think you've really hit it on the head here.
 
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