Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Process vs Product

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SW Minnesota
    Posts
    159
    I watched an episode of the Woodwright Shop recently with Chris Schwartz joining Roy Underhill. The show was about planes and planing. They were going on and on about extremely fine shavings. On Another thread on this site, the folks were discussing making thin shavings with their well tuned planes.

    That got me thinking; I believe that many of us using hand tools, it's more about process than creating a product. I think that some folks that have 2,000 sq ft of shop filled with power equipment are more tuned in to the product, the end result.

    What do ya think?

    By the way, it doesn't really matter. I have a friend that has a really neat shop. Lots of power tools, great, well organized storage. I don't think he has ever built a thing. I don't know if he even has any wood. His hobby is creating his shop; that's his thing; that's what turns his crank. It's a hobby for heaven's sake!!
    Last edited by Dennis Ulrich; 04-06-2012 at 09:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    ABQ and LA
    Posts
    26,836
    For me, I think it's a combination of both the process and the product. I truly enjoy the process of making (most) things, but I also get a big boost in motivation when I see the end result of the creation process. If other people also like it, that adds even more to the motivation to make more stuff.

    Like you, I've observed some folks for whom the shop itself is the hobby. And like you said, there's nothing wrong with that as long as they're having fun doing it.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
    When the weird get going, they start their own forum. - Vaughn McMillan

    workingwoods.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    9,696
    Oh, I'm definitely a product guy myself. I'm enjoying having me a man cave and space to work the few hobbies I have and hang out in. As many have gathered here, I typically build utilitarian and am more of a handyman, but I understand processes and do get into the details on things I do want to look nice.
    Darren

    A determined soul will do more with a rusty monkey wrench than a loafer will accomplish with all the tools in a machine shop. Robert Hughes (1938-2012), Australian art critic

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    GTA Ontario Canada
    Posts
    9,868
    I am more of a process person right now until i understand the process and have tinkered i dont want to commit to product. I do like making tools or jigs but that day will end too. I enjoy hand tools more than power tools because the process is slower and comes from human power and the tools amaze me. But my impatience makes me use the power tools and as Bill S has said before, this is where the craftsman skill dies rather than gets cultivated. Thats my 2 cents.
    Rob .....Alias John Wayne now Pasquinell da trapper.

    "forget the apples slap some bacon on a biscuit and lets go...

    We're burning daylight"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oceanside, So. Calif. 5 mi. to the ocean
    Posts
    4,302
    I guess I am in between. If I am turning (I am a rank amateur) or building a workbench I am very high on the process part. If I am improving the shop wiring, moving the luminaires, skinning the studs, fixing the gate latch, I am very high on the finished product.

    Several years ago when I first took over part of the 3 car garage I wanted the shop done and I wanted it done now. Glenn said something like, "Dad, it is a hobby. This is part of the hobby. Enjoy it!" Those few words had a great impact on my attitude. Now when I am doing something or making something for practical reasons I think of those words and my attitude stays adjusted. Even though I would rather do something other than move the DC ducting, or fix the gate latch, I can enjoy doing it.

    IT IS A HOBBY. ENJOY ALL PARTS OF IT!

    JImB
    Last edited by Jim C Bradley; 04-06-2012 at 11:46 PM.
    First of all you have to be smarter than the machine.
    VOTING MEMBER

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Thomasville, GA
    Posts
    3,536
    I enjoy both the process and product. Creativity is used for design, of course, but one sometimes finds it necessary to get creative during the build. On many of my projects, I spent weeks or even months on the design - initial drawing, tweaks, etc.

    A few decades ago, a man in the company I worked for cautioned me about rushing into a project without planning it thoroughly. By reviewing my designs several times before starting the build, I always come up with some kind of tweaks or outright corrections. All a part of the process.

    The build is both process and product. We process the material until it's ready to become part of the product. The product comes alive because of the process.

    The end product is all that most people ever see. Frankly, most don't care about our processes to get to the product. The processes that we use to create a product is why we enjoy our hobby, avocation, vocation or whatever it is to you. (Let's hope we all enjoy it!!!)
    Bill Arnold - Website - ShopCam
    Citizen of Texas residing in Georgia.
    Ignorance is only skin deep, but stupid goes all the way to the marrow!
    Live every day like it's your last, but don't forget to stop and smell the roses.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Gonzales, Louisiana
    Posts
    115
    Dennis, it's funny you mention this. I was setting the iron on a jointer plane (8) the other day and I made a few paper shavings cause I could then chuckled a bit to myself and set it a lot deeper to match the task at hand.

    It's fine to be a fired up about the process, it's especially easy with hand tools... but, in my opinion, to be a purist with hand tools you have to keep in mind that practical and cool are not the same. There is no reason for a 15 lb jointer plane to make paper shavings for a half hr to joint one board when it can be done is 10 minutes when set more aggressively. Sure, a smoother should take fine shavings because that's it's job...

    So that said, I guess you could say I'm a process guy. I think a lot of furniture building cave men will tend to be process guys because we are so few and so protective of our passion. I feel if you are proficient with hand tools then power can be as much a burden as a help. I also feel those bound exclusively to power tools lack the ability to go beyond the realm of square boxes quite as readily... Almost as if power tools are a crux, square cutting machines that don't as readily lend themselves towards the creative process.

    I've been known to go through a process purely for the process but I really wouldn't need a process without an end product in mind. Despite this, brand me a hand tool'n, dark ages, cave paint'n Neanderthal process guy I guess

    tom~

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SW Minnesota
    Posts
    159
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Becnel
    Dennis, it's funny you mention this. I was setting the iron on a jointer plane (8) the other day and I made a few paper shavings cause I could then chuckled a bit to myself and set it a lot deeper to match the task at hand.

    It's fine to be a fired up about the process, it's especially easy with hand tools... but, in my opinion, to be a purist with hand tools you have to keep in mind that practical and cool are not the same. There is no reason for a 15 lb jointer plane to make paper shavings for a half hr to joint one board when it can be done is 10 minutes when set more aggressively. Sure, a smoother should take fine shavings because that's it's job...

    So that said, I guess you could say I'm a process guy. I think a lot of furniture building cave men will tend to be process guys because we are so few and so protective of our passion. I feel if you are proficient with hand tools then power can be as much a burden as a help. I also feel those bound exclusively to power tools lack the ability to go beyond the realm of square boxes quite as readily... Almost as if power tools are a crux, square cutting machines that don't as readily lend themselves towards the creative process.

    I've been known to go through a process purely for the process but I really wouldn't need a process without an end product in mind. Despite this, brand me a hand tool'n, dark ages, cave paint'n Neanderthal process guy I guess

    tom~
    One more time - planted at both ends of the same river!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •