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Thread: just give me an idea

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    just give me an idea

    I cant begin to tell you fellow weekend warrior woodworkers here how much I hate to hand apply finishes.

    Im willing to purchase a better compressor, experiment with a spray gun or two, but Im hesitant because of the strict code enforcement in my town.

    Im quite sure the NN would be in city hall complaining about this or that the second he got wind(pun) of any chemicals I was spraying.

    Is there any way to disguise what Im doing, while keeping adequate ventilation in my garage?

    Im reluctant also because Ive had a run in with local code enforcement agents over the noise, and have taken care of that issue, but I know if they caught me spraying chemicals they would bring down a laundry list of violations, and that could be extremely costly to me. And once that can of worms opens up, I know I will be hassled and eyeballed until I die or move out of here.

    Are water based polys/lacquer less likely to get me in hot water?

    anyone have any suggestions besides moving or renting a spray booth?
    Human Test Dummy

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by allen levine View Post

    Are water based polys/lacquer less likely to get me in hot water?
    The short answer is yes, the WB finishes are much less stinky than a solvent base. Unless your exhaust fan is blowing directly onto somebody's patio, I truly doubt anyone would notice the fumes at all.

    My experience is mostly with solvent based lacquer, but I've recently started playing with water based finishes in an effort avoid the fume issue myself. On a suggestion from a colleague, I picked up a gallon of this stuff to test in my sprayer:

    http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051

    It's pricey compared to solvent based stuff, but the thinner is much cheaper. I thinned it 50% with water and sprayed it out of a gravity feed HVLP cup gun. If you don't have a spray gun yet, I've had good luck with the cheap HVLP gravity feed guns from Harbor Freight. You can practice spraying with water on some cardboard to learn the guns pattern. Drips and runs can be brushed out as long as they're not on the final coat when you're spraying a poly. With a finish that melts into itself you can't do this as you'll pull the earlier coats around.

  3. #3
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    alan using marks thoughts on water base products,, i would contact jeff jewitt and see what he says.. jim delaney has used some water base products threw him and likes it..drop jim a line.. i havnt made the plunge yet but i know i need to someday
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
    One hand washes the other!
    Don't put off today till tomorrow!

  4. #4
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    Allen when i finished my vanity i did it in my workshop and was using my pancake compressor and a cheap harbor freight gun and enduro water based finish by General. The odour factor and fume factor was minimal. I even had my shop closed up doing it and what i did was to run my air scrubber while spraying. Worked like a charm. Its a real low cost way to get to try it out. Take a quart of the finish get a 3m mask and a $15 dollar gun at HF and give it a try.

    I mean lets look at a pretty stinky alternative. You in your driveway with a small project and rattle can lacquer from HD. That cannot be against code or they should not be allowed to sell it.

    The waterbase stuff hardly smells by comparison.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
    cheers

  5. #5
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    Target Coatings Quality products that don't stink!

    Now that I've said that, I have started using more of their products on more projects and like what I see (and don't smell). I'm using EM1000 Sealer and EM6000 Lacquer on my current project. I have used them before, switched back to other products but have decided to stick with TC going forward.
    Bill Arnold
    Citizen of Texas residing in Georgia.
    NRA Life Member and Member of Mensa
    My Weather Underground station

  6. #6
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    I am the local Target Coatings bigot. (Okay, maybe Bill Arnold also).

    If you like lacquer - to me defined as later coats burn into the earlier coats, leaving a single integrated coat that never gives witness lines when you rub it out - then Target is the only water based lacquer. Other companies say they have a water based lacquer, but if you have to sand between coats for adhesion it isn't burning in. I buy my Target EM6000 production lacquer in 5 gallon cans. And am well over 50 gallons so far.

    The smell of my Water based finish is ... no smell. I am not sure I would recommend breathing the overspray, but it works by the water evaporating, then once the water is gone, the almost odorless chemical magic occurs. Dries about as fast as solvent lacquer, and passes the Kitchen Cabinet Mfg. Assoc (KCMA) tests better than solvent lacquer.

    I have never been satisfied with the water based finishes that can be purchased locally. My last piece done with Polycrylic is on the list to sand and refinish.

    See www.solowoodworker.com/wood/targetcoatings.html for the Target Coatings I use
    See http://www.solowoodworker.com/wood/spraygun.html for my recommendations on choosing a gun.
    Charlie Plesums, Austin Texas
    (Retired early to become a custom furnituremaker)
    Lots of my free advice at www.solowoodworker.com

  7. #7
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    I have a hf spray gun, one of their 59 dollar guns.
    My only other question here, since I think Im going to dive in for the next set of cabs, is, can I use a water based laquer on top of an oil based stain?
    And even though I finished a few cab doors, will the satin laquer give me a similar finished look to the oil based poly I already used?(I know it may not be a perfect match, but none of my work is perfect, so a satin finish is all IM looking for, but I have to use the same method of staining as well as the same stain)
    Human Test Dummy

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by allen levine View Post
    I have a hf spray gun, one of their 59 dollar guns.
    My only other question here, since I think Im going to dive in for the next set of cabs, is, can I use a water based laquer on top of an oil based stain?
    And even though I finished a few cab doors, will the satin laquer give me a similar finished look to the oil based poly I already used?(I know it may not be a perfect match, but none of my work is perfect, so a satin finish is all IM looking for, but I have to use the same method of staining as well as the same stain)
    It will go over the oil based stain as long as the stain is fully cured. The look of most water bases won't match a solvent based finish because solvent based finishes will add an amber hue. I think there are water bases that mimic this or you can add a coat of dewaxed shellac under the water base. The shellac will amber it up and also ensure no adhesion issues. You can also tint your top coat with some amber Transitint dye. It's the only dye I recommend as it's much more resistant to fading. The satin sheen should match, if it's too shiny, you can add some flattening agent to your top coat to make it flatter.

  9. #9
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    I forgot that the oil based gives that amber. this could be a problem for me, not wanting to experiment with dyeing laquer just yet.
    I made 7 doors and finished them and the face frames so far.
    Im going to get some waterborne, still reading about the different brands recommended, and try out a few coats to see how it looks. Worst case, Ill just start spraying my next project.
    I sanded the cherry up to 180 grit.
    I then used pre-stain conditioner. Then a heavy coat of stain, let it sit 10 minutes, wiped it off wet, then a clean dry wipe off. Let it sit overnight. Then wiped on another coat of stain. Let it dry overnight. Brushed on polyurethane satin, let it dry 24 hours, sanded with 400 grit smooth. Applied another coat, sanded and today I applied 2 coats of rub on poly satin. Will sand and apply one more coat rub on tomorrow. Sand it out, and Im done for now. If my son wants, he can buff the cabinets in a few weeks from now. I dont know if I need to buff out satin finish.
    Last edited by allen levine; 04-25-2012 at 07:17 PM.
    Human Test Dummy

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by allen levine View Post
    I forgot that the oil based gives that amber. this could be a problem for me, not wanting to experiment with dyeing laquer just yet. ...
    Allen, I'm the farthest thing from knowledgeable about toning, but I keep experimenting. On my current project, I've been testing different color dyes - TransTint in distilled water. I've got a good match for where I'm heading, but needed it to be a touch warmer. My solution was to add two drops of TT Honey Amber to an ounce of EM1000 sealer and sprayed a moderate coat on top of the dyed oak. That added must enough amber color to warm it a bit.
    Bill Arnold
    Citizen of Texas residing in Georgia.
    NRA Life Member and Member of Mensa
    My Weather Underground station

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