sons kitchen updates

allen levine

Member
Messages
12,343
Location
new york city burbs
Im not sure if Im ready for a project such as this, but I enjoy the challenge
Ill post up pics tomorrow of the 39 year old kitchen hes dealing with now.
We got so far as to put in a new microwave, and tomorrow Ill install a face frame and some doors over that area.
Im laminating 1/4 cherry ply on all cabinet ends.
The soffit will be addressed when I finish all the top cabs under it.
I will install raised panels, the same as the doors, on the face of the soffit, and trim it out with some molding. Most likely I will cut all my own cherry moldings, since the price of the stuff is incredible out here.

Im going to keep a running list of expenses for everything. Everything.

I know a kitchen of his size would run him 12-16 thousand dollars for cherry cabinets,(priced out here on LI, not including labor costs to install them) not including handles. Counter tops, well, were not up to that yet.

So far what Ive purchased for this project(prices are rounded off to dollar)
152 BF of cherry for 615.00(great buy for me)
qt poly urethane-11.00
blend pencil-4.00
stain gallon-30.00
wood conditioner for stain-12.00
22 pulls-66.00
40 hinges-72.00(purchased online)salice one piece

Im not sure of the amount of doors Ill end up with yet. I purchased a stock item pull, and up the road Ill pick up a few more and return what I dont need.(home depot, and theres 5 home depots within 20 minutes of me)

Im not including brads, pocket screws, glue and other inexpensive things, since I have tons of them and I dont think they amount to more than 5 dollars for the total Id use. Maybe 10-20 dollars for glue for completed project.

Im at 810 dollars. Im going to use prefinished ply, either maple or birch when I get to the new cabs I need to build. Ill add that in. Im hoping to keep the entire refacing and new cabinets costs around 1500.

*I purchased some transtint dye and some Target EM6000 waterbased laquer, for an attempt to spray the rest of the cabinets, but I wont include this in the price as for now, its just an experiment.
 
Last edited:
dont have a problem taking pictures. Just remember I know Im in over my head.
People around me think Im qualified.

Ill post, so all the kitchen guys here know how safe they really are out there.

In the end, my son will still love me, even if I ruin his 40 year old kitchen.
 
Allen, Who are you trying to convince you're not up to the task? You or us?

We've seen your work before. We know what you are capable of.

This is well within that you've done before. I'm sure you won't be ruining anything. I'm also sure it's going to turnout great. :thumb:
 
I think you will do a fine job Allen. Your boy is getting a super deal. :)


Just athought i had when you mention buying the finish, any chance you can do the finishing as in spray finish over at your sons place. At least there you wont have your NN to concern you and getting the cabs over there without finish would at least remove worring about the finish getting damaged. Naturally you still have to be careful transporting them but you would still be at the sanding recovery stage if you got an acccidental incident. Anyhow just a thought. His neighbors would not get chance to complain given its a once off project.

Looking forward to the pics.
 
note-my son is a very unorganized person. In his business life, he is meticulous, but his kitchen cabinets are a mess, and me moving everying around didnt help the mess.

I got the first few doors in with frames this morning, with no problems.

First 2 pictures, the spacer next to the stove, oak, then the new cherry. Unfortunately, he hasnt removed all the old tiles, so I realized I might have to make another spacer, or just a piece of trim molding to cover the extra 1/4 gap there will be when the tile is gone. Ill wait and see.kitchen reface 001 (Medium).jpgkitchen reface 009 (Medium).jpg

next picture, I wanted to build out the side of the cabinet so I could adequately support the new shelf above microwave.Ofcourse, the back wall holds the weight, the top shelf just screws it in place. kitchen reface 002 (Medium).jpg

next, the cabinet sides are oak ply, so I lightly sanded it down, applied glue,and laminated a piece of 1/4 cherry ply.
I didnt get a shot after I installed the cherry ply, but I built the face frame 1/4 inch wider on that side to cover the ply edge.kitchen reface 004 (Medium).jpg

the empty wall with the clock, thats going to be cut halfway so we can build a counter(breakfast nook) into the dining area and I will make stools to go under it.the rest of the wall with have new cabs and the fridge will be moved over to that area(the other blank wall)kitchen reface 008 (Medium).jpg

next pic, what the new frames and doors look like. Didnt get as much blotchiness, but still got some. Pretreated all the wood this time, I just guess cherry will be cherry, at least for me.kitchen reface 010 (Medium).jpg

since the inside of the cabs under the microwave extending a bit over 4 inches, I laminated 1/4 cherry ply over the oak ply, but the edge was going to show, so I made some small roundover molding, and it seems to look fine, no ply edges showing.kitchen reface 012 (Medium).jpg

last pic, where the fridge is now, its going to the wall right side of clock wall. Im going to build a huge pantry closet there, floor to soffit, with 4 doors. Since the pantry cab wont be as deep as the counter, Im going to make the face frame an inch wider so the doors can open freely without hitting the counter top or cabs next to it. I noticed in my new kitchen, they put a spacer in there, but Ill just build an inch into the face frame, same difference I figured.(I had to check to make sure we can run a water line under the floor for the fridge icemaker, all is good, easy enough, the floor joists are above the dropped ceiling in the basement.)

just wanted to mention. The cabinets are old, but theres nothing wrong with them so I decided to save time and money and just make new frames and doors for them. Im going to have to build new cabs for 2 walls, but the blank walls and straight. The soffit walls, wow, the soffit dips 1/2 inch from front to back.
I know Id have nothing but headaches, so I went the cheap easier way.

Hopefully, the window guy will install the new window this week, and my son will put in the new spots above the window so I can finish in that area when I do the left side cabs on top.

the cabinet next to the stove left, thats where we intend to put a new dishwasher, just want the plumber to take a look before we take it apart to fit a dishwasher.(thes the cabinet lower right of sink)
 

Attachments

  • kitchen reface 006 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 006 (Medium).jpg
    63 KB · Views: 99
  • kitchen reface 016 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 016 (Medium).jpg
    40 KB · Views: 91
Last edited:
we might have a problem.
to the left of the stove, is one cabinet and then the sink.
In order to install a dishwasher, we need some sort of support to hold the countertop.(there will not be a cabinet on both sides. There is one cabinet, then the side wall and then the stove.)
Im thinking after we take out/cut out the base cabinet, only one side, we can build a frame and secure it to the back wall and floor.(I believe we have 2-3 inches to play with to get the 24 inch width needed)
I thought about just ripping out the entire sink section bottoms and moving the sink over 6-8 inches to the left then it will not be centered under the window or the rest of the upper left cabinets.
Not sure where were going with this. This kitchen wasnt built thinking about installing a dishwasher.
the only other choice is probably going with a smaller than standard dishwasher and then putting in a small narrow cabinet between stove and right of dishwasher.

this is all piece work. I cant tell how long or when I can get it all done and I certainly dont have the room to rebuild all the cabinets and keep them somewhere and then install it all at once.
I cant shut down his kitchen, he still needs to use it. A few days yes, but not for months while I redo them.
 
Last edited:
were looking at the 18 inch ge dishwashwer that matches his stove and microwave.
I can build out the wall and support the counter and all will be fine.(Im waiting on someone who knows this stuff to give a look and suggest something to me, he might stop by later this week and look at it)

I made some face frames this morning, but had to run to his house to double check the angled one ,Sure enough, I forgot to allow for the 1/4 cherry ply on the sides, so its a good thing.

I milled up 2 inch strips, 4 bf worth, and they were all no good. I managed to cut out a few smaller pieces, seems my jointer was so clogged it didnt give me straight surfaces.

Ok, Ill save 2 bf worth.

I started making the first door as I had some extra stiles already made, and I fed it too fast, chipped out 2 rails, so I decided, thats enough today. Not a productive day.

I picked up 2 sheets of birch ply, did not want to drive 35 miles each way to get prefinished.(theres alot of leg work invovled, takes up a good portion of my days. Spent most of the day in the car)

That adds on 86 dollars to the cost. Im up to 900 dollars spent so far.
 
Last edited:
my very sophisticated shelf pin jig.

I didnt go nuts drilling holes all the way to top or bottom.

problem Im running into, is that I have so little space to keep doors/panel glue ups, so Im forced to work on single pieces at a time. Im trying to do all steps together, like rout profiles on stiles/rails and all at once, run long pieces etc....but keeping all the pieces laying around, trying to build cabinets, there just isnt enough room.
Gonna really slow up the progress.
 

Attachments

  • kitchen reface 002 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 002 (Medium).jpg
    53.9 KB · Views: 46
  • kitchen reface 004 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 004 (Medium).jpg
    44.3 KB · Views: 41
Last edited:
IM going to unbolt my mitre saw and have to drag it along with me soon, as well as get my hands on a portable ts so I can do some trim work. I can use my track saw, but small pieces will trim better on a ts.
Not sure who I know has one, so Im going to have to start asking around.
 
progressing very slowly.
Not too sure why, but my body isnt being nice to me lately, so Ive only been getting in a few hours a day.
Glued up and planed 8 panels, 6 for doors, 2 for a side of a cabinet.
Made alot of stiles, finished some more face frames and some door frames.

This is what the cabinet you see when you walk into the kitchen will look like from the side.kitchen reface 020 (Medium).jpg I will attach the raised panels from the inside of the cabinet.
There will be crown molding up on top, eventually Im going to have to learn how to cut it, because that is a very weak spot for me, and my only attempt at crown molding ended up me buying corner blocks to bypass all the angle work.
But I will learn.
Nothing is glued or sanded yet in these pics.
 

Attachments

  • kitchen reface 019 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 019 (Medium).jpg
    53 KB · Views: 44
progressing very slowly.
Not too sure why, but my body isnt being nice to me lately, so Ive only been getting in a few hours a day.
Glued up and planed 8 panels, 6 for doors, 2 for a side of a cabinet.
Made alot of stiles, finished some more face frames and some door frames.

This is what the cabinet you see when you walk into the kitchen will look like from the side.View attachment 67234 I will attach the raised panels from the inside of the cabinet.
There will be crown molding up on top, eventually Im going to have to learn how to cut it, because that is a very weak spot for me, and my only attempt at crown molding ended up me buying corner blocks to bypass all the angle work.
But I will learn.
Nothing is glued or sanded yet in these pics.

Cutting crown is easy. Make up a rt angle jig set the jig on your mitre box. Set the crown molding in the jig just the way its going to be installed. Cut it with just one angle like you would do flat trim. They sell a jig for it but why buy it when 2 pieces of scrap ply will work well. Make sure your jig is as tall as your crown sitting at a angle.
 
2 neighbors down from me, is a home improvements contractor, who showed me how to cut the crown a while back.
A few weeks later, he dug up the rockler jig he had(he never used it) for cutting crown, and gave it to me as a gift.
I think I just have to take a couple of minutes and practice with some crown and get the hang of it.
Before I attempt to cut any moldings out of cherry, Im going to try some pine first to practice both making it and cutting it to install.
 
not including the 2 new bits I purchased, or the new featherboards(I consider them supplies, secondary costs), I spent another 75 bucks on 2 sheets birch, so that brings me to close to 1000.00 so far.
I believe Ill need a few more sheets, and if Im successful spraying, another 50 bucks worth of finish.
Might need a bit more cherry, but I wont purchase it until I run out.
 
after staining up a whole bunch of doors,and repairing what damage I saw, I noticed 2 things.
On one door one of the pieces I used has completely different coloration, and took the stain differently and is very dark, noticable.
On another door, a knot that I glued in, eventually came out, cracked apart, so I epoxied in a mixture of sawdust and epoxy and it filled in ok, not perfect. but I did have another small chip out near that k not, on the raised part of the panel, so now I have 2 doors Im not thrilled with.(not disasters though)Im sure more stain and some finish coats will soften the problems, or maybe not. the stain is still damp, and its only the first coat.

so my wife addressed the 2 doors this morning and explained to me what she thinks I should do.

let the client see it, and tell him he has 3 options:

1.You ordered a natural product. Wood is a natural product and I cant control its color or defects. If you want perfectly smooth unnatural like looking doors, order a different type like plastic or painted plywood doors.
2.I can take off 10% of the cabinet that the doors are on.
3. I can remake the doors, but that will add on 4 months more wait time since the shop is machined for alternate setups and different work now(making cabinets, not doors)

I like her.
 

Attachments

  • kitchen reface 022 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 022 (Medium).jpg
    47.8 KB · Views: 44
  • kitchen reface 023 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 023 (Medium).jpg
    65.2 KB · Views: 43
  • kitchen reface 024 (Medium).jpg
    kitchen reface 024 (Medium).jpg
    56.4 KB · Views: 44
Last edited:
Cherry is one of those woods that has that problem. I always ask the client how they want the look to be. If they want the wood uniform I will use all the wood from one tree. This is the only way to try and keep the color close. Only other option is to go darker, but then in time they will still change color and show like that. For me they look fine and they should be happy to have them .
 
Top