When to google and when to ask

Rob Keeble

Member
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Location
GTA Ontario Canada
So here is a thought that has crossed my mind more times than i can think of since joining this forum. Today i thought what the heck why not ask.

So...here goes....

Whats your thoughts on when you should ask a question about something of your forum mates versus simply not bothering and seeking the answer via google.

To me there is a huge difference between the two. But there are times when it could appear albeit not necessarily the case that one is too lazy too look it up oneself.

Whats your view / thoughts on the matter.?

I feel google can be a conversation killer.



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I'd agree with you Rob. The conversations will lead you to ideas and perceptions that you may not have thought of...or for that matter tell you it's a stupid idea in the first place. ;) Google will continue to promote a stupid idea to the point that you create a youtube video of yourself doing the stupid act and showing it to the world. :D
 
If I and a bunch of forum people were sitting around in my shed, we'd be very uncomfortably squished together, but aside from that, I would never think of Googling a question when I have people around with the kind of experience that means I don't have to try and assess the value of the Google source. I'm getting answers from a source that I trust, and can ask supplementary questions of. For woodworking techniques, I actually use Youtube more than Google, as watching someone do something successfully is 1,000 times better than reading about it.

I set up my MLCS dovetail jig yesterday, and I have some questions that I will ask here, later. I went to Youtube and got one answer I needed, and some clarification of the manual, but I'm still going to ask my questions on this forum and a routering forum.

Good question, Rob. :thumb:
 
This is a good question - one I've struggled with. I'm glad this place isn't one of those "If you had used the search..." or "It's easy to find on google..." - in fact, people who do that instantly get put into a category of people I reserve in my mind for the kinds of people I'd never trust with anything. What's the point of a forum if everyone just searches? The whole point of a forum is discussion ... if you're sick of answering the same question, zip yer lip and let someone else answer! Sorry - rant mode off now :)


For me - I decide whether to ask vs. research depending on several factors. If it's relatively safe information (something won't explode if I get it wrong, etc) and I need to know right away, then I Google. This would be things that are cropping up in the process of doing something and the answer is timely - i need to know before I can continue with whatever it is I'm doing. Stuff like deciding how to attach one piece to another - if i'm in the midst of the task at hand and a question like that comes up, I'll either Google it or ask the guys (if any) that are hanging out in my woodworking chat room. The timeliness is a major factor there because I want to keep my train of thought rolling. But I think confidence in my ability to find the right answer also plays a major role, too.

When it's something I'm not too sure about or isn't needed right away, I'll post on a forum. Forum answers come over time and when that's okay, they're the best place I've found for kicking around an idea. I try to reach these questions sooner in a project so as to have more opportunity to ask a forum and reduce the number of things I end up having to Google instead. Preparedness, I guess.

Questions are the heart of a forum. If we all sit around waiting for someone to post tips or finished projects, a forum doesn't thrive. It's questions that are the lifeblood of any forum. That's why it baffles me when I encounter a forum where questions are met with "Do a search...". Those forums shoot themselves in the foot, I feel. The simple questions need asking so that other folks can find the information should they do a search. It also breeds healthy discussion over the best techniques, or the pitfalls of one technique over another.

I try not to Google hard stuff ... I probably should ask more of the simpler questions, but I was raised to seek the info first, then ask if I need to so sometimes I don't always ask first. In the end, it's kind of a balance and it really depends on the situation when the question comes up. If it can wait and I want a thorough explanation or if it would actually generate some conversation, then I try to ask. :)

Good question, Rob :)
 
OK Rob, I tried to Google an answer and was unsuccessful to here is my take on it. If I simply want to know the meaning of something such as a word or a phrase I Google it but if I want and opinion or a consensus of opinions abut a thing a process or and idea I ask the forum. A good example was a few days ago Steve asked the question "What does SEER mean" if he just wanted to know the meaning of the word then Google works for me but if he really wanted to know does it pay to spend the extra money for a higher SEER rated unit then he would be looking for an opinion.
 
Great replies. Glad i asked the question.:thumb:

I think there is huge merit in the fact that if one hangs out at a particular forum long enough, then you get to know the guys hopefully they become friends. For this to occur one has found common ground among them and then surely the weight and value of a friends opinion has so much more bearing on a matter.

I have a friend down the road from me thats a retired mechanic and ex woodworking machine repair man. He and i will call each other to chew the fat on something even though neither of us might know the answer. I value his opinion and he is honest with me like i am with him and their is no ego involved in saying heck i dont know. We past any stage of needing to come off cleverer than the next man.

Common ground to me is more than just technical prowess. How many people are able to agree to disagree and still be friends or able to move off a position they have taken in life after input from friends.

Its easy to be agreeable...heck all one needs to do then is nod when the other person says something.

Many times to hear one is taking an incorrect approach is way easier to hear from someone you have respect for as a friend than to hear it from a source where one can rationalise that the source is questionable....:)
 
Rob, I tried really hard to get this link to point back at this thread, but this is as close as I could come:

http://bit.ly/LbjjhR

:D

I agree with what others have said, I see the value in a mix of asking and researching. Quite often I'll also use Google to make sure the answer I'm about to give someone is indeed correct.
 
I have ask a couple questions lately and the first reply was Google is your friend type thing. If I wanted a Google answer, I would have done the Google. The reason I ask is for knowledge on the subject from actual users, not predetermined answers.

Thus the reason I don't ask many questions anymore. I also don't like to show projects anymore, until complete, for basically the same reason.
 
Well many times the question is one where google provides a better and quicker answer. And often the question is one where if I have an answer it came from me googling. I think way too many just want someone else to do their work for them or they have an attitude against google.

It really depends on the type question, if one wants an opinion or someone's personal experience then a question here is a great starting point. If one wants to know how to calculate board feet then google is your friend seems a fine response to me.

And the super easily hurt feelings are one of the reasons this list has fallen from my favor s one lately. Seems some one is always mad or hurt or insulted.

There are a ton of different levels of experience and expertise here. If my or someone else can find your answer on google why is that any less valuable than someone's opinion?

And the honest truth is that google really is often your friend. And also more than likely someone else will add personal experience. Would seem to be the best of both worlds if we weren't all so touchy..

As they say just my own humble(or not) personal opinion, and I didn't Google it!
 
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Good question Rob. If I have a question I ask the forum first before I even think of looking it up on Google. I want the opinions of members that I trust. Actually I find it kind of annoying when I get a response from someone who says they just looked it up on Google and here is the answer.
 
About the "just google it..." or "do a search..." replies - for me, it's more annoying when the question is directly related to the subject of the forum itself. Like here, if someone asks a woodworking question, it seems rude to say "search for it ..." in response - that's what this place is here for! That reply doesn't invite anyone to discuss the subject at all and I think that's what I find most troublesome.

Now if someone's here asking what it takes to split an atom, I'm less bothered by someone saying 'ya might wanna google that...' as it's pretty far outside the scope of this forum. In general, though, if I ask a question and anticipate that someone might say "google it..", I usually state in the question that I already HAVE and am hoping someone has more info - that usually keeps those kinds of replies down :D
 
A lot of time when I mention that I used Google to find a piece of info in a post, I bring it up not to tell the OP they should have found it themselves, but to let the reader know I'm only basing things on a web search, and not on personal experience.
 
Vaughn when you have done that i have always understood exactly just that.

To me the thing here is one joins a community in the same way one belongs to any institution, club, church, sport org, whatever. They question then is what for? Surely to participate. In my view one has the ability on this forum to participate to any level one chooses.

It will really help the cause if we dont approach a thread with a preconcieved opinion of why the person posted. Ie they are too lazy to look it up on google.


Surely this point goes to the heart of why the forum exists. To communicate, to share, and to hear a variety of opinions from others not just faceless others but people you can get to know who are recogniseable by their actual name.


Lets imagine how boring things in life will be if rather than talk to anyone or for that matter bother with making a post in our community we instead all resort to simply googling it.


One thing i have found very handy with regards to googling it, is having a smart phone (wish it was a tablet instead) handy when watching the news. If a point comes up and i wish to know more or see the location on a map, i reach for my device and look it up.

Wife and i were watching the Queens Jubilee concert last Tues night and a whole bunch of artists were present. We started talking about some of them and then could not instantly recall specifics so i simply googled or used wiki to get specifics adequate for our conversation. Previously we would not have bothered going to the computer and back in the day the questions would not even have come up because recall did not permit it at the time. But this aspect fueled more discussion than we would have had while watching the concert bringing about a greater depth to watching it rather than looking like two dumb deer staring into the headlights of a car.

Other times we have used google on my phone almost like a snap quiz. Say for example we hear XYZ movie star passed away. Well we look em up and check on the movies they made and a whole new discussion begins.


I guess my point is that google can be the source of a discussion rather than the means to shut discussion down.


If we just say to someone google it, in some ways i see that as a kind of censorship. A way to shut them up. Pretty narrow mindset in my view. Bit like the guys i used to have to tolerate growing up when they would force a magazine publisher to put black ink bands on anything and everything they did not like. We called them the "Censorship Control Board"
 
A lot of time when I mention that I used Google to find a piece of info in a post, I bring it up not to tell the OP they should have found it themselves, but to let the reader know I'm only basing things on a web search, and not on personal experience.

I do this, too - and is perfectly fine with me. I agree with the sentiment that you want to let people know that you're coming from research and that it may not be 100% solid information as you don't have direct experience. I think that's important to convey for sure. At least the answer involved some effort - and that's good stuff - undoubtedly you applied your own experience to what you unearthed and conveyed what you saw in your own words which is valuable as well.

It's the people who can't be bothered to DO the search to find the answer to which they're referring.

Then again - it's a bit of a gray area, too, isn't it? Say someone asks a question and you know the answer lies here on the forum but you can't recall where, when or what to search for ... is it wrong to reply "I know the answer is here, i just don't know where or what to search for?" To me, that's still attempting to be helpful and surely someone will come along with stronger search fu with the exact answer. At least it's conveying to the OP that their answer does exist and can be found here. Information they probably didn't have when they asked (which is why they asked!).

Yeah - it's an interesting subject ... i don't like being told to google it - i see that on a lot of other forums and it irks me. At least tell someone WHAT to google for, eh? :)
 
One other thing to keep in mind is that not everyone is as proficient at using a computer as some of us may be. Maybe the person doesn't know what terms to search on to get the right answer. So asking a question here might actually be faster and better. Heck, I know I've gotten some great answers amazingly fast on here at times.
 
An interesting thread, but yet kind of predictable in a way. One thing I have noticed in online forums everywhere is the tendency to dogpile, making it hard to offer even a slight variation in the herd's current thinking. I think Garry had a very balanced and thoughtful response, not that he did not agree with the most of the responses. He just left the door open to the thought, that each person should be doing a little legwork before asking certain types of questions with Google being one avenue to pursue.

A more important question should be the value of answers from the online community in general, because I disagree that there are tons of experience pertaining to woodworking here or elsewhere. I believe that woodworking forums and blogs are mostly comprised of people learning a hobby and sharing their experiences with each other. Most of our information is from limited experience or parroted from what we gather from other sources on the web. So what am I defining as limited experience? I don't know, but when I consider someone who has been building fine furniture for twenty or so years either as a dedicated hobbyist or professional, I would consider that person to be a master worth listening to, but with a caveat. Most of these "masters" are self taught, because the the apprentice system was long gone when they started. These guys are not normally on the web conversing with everyone. That just leaves the rest of us, who are searching for answers, repeating what we read on the web as the gospel.

I think you will find that most of the online woodworking information is a reflection of the herd's current thinking. Right now there is big dust up that reflects the limitations of the online information. It has to do with old study (early 2000 something) done in Japan that reinforced the value of a chipbreaker, which had been regarded as something akin to your appendix, having no value by most current thinking (not by the old guys like Graham Blackburn). Google "chipbreaker study" and check out the WoodCentral's handtool posts. See, google can be your friend or foe if you don't understand that you must consider the source of all information and how it could be wrong. Read the old texts, take classes from true masters or like Larry M. does, travel to see the professionals and apprentice out your time to learn.

So you are probably asking, why does he bother posting here if he thinks all the information here is worthless. Well, I don't. Often, all I need is the experience and encouragement of those of you like me that are just students in this hobby. Even if it is not based on years and years of personal experiences, it has value to me knowing that someone has tried a certain method or technique and it has worked for them. I just need to know going into it that it is based on a limited experience and may not be the best way or the right technique. The greatest value that I get from this forum over all others is the encouragement and fellowship of people with the same common interest.


Let the dogpile begin!
 
The keen thing about fww for me, is that there are alot of times Im just lost on something, that I cant even ask the right questions to get answers on google, but the patience of some here to dissect my problems and help me find a solution makes this place worth more than Hondurian mahogany.
and yes, there are tons of opinions on things that can lead one in all directions, but if 10 people with 25 years experience each, are willing to offer their opinion, I study the results carefully, and so far, havent made wrong choices.
 
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The keen thing about fww for me, is that there are alot of times Im just lost on something, that I cant even ask the right questions to get answers on google,

Exactly. Crafting a good search string is not always self evident, especially when the terms are unfamiliar. And now there are fewer librarians to help us when our research hits a brick wall. ;)

Besides, google doesn't hold anything, it just points us to sites like this, which are the true repositories of knowledge. And I suspect that most people who are presently members found this site through googling. The reason they joined is they found discussion more profitable for gaining knowledge than google was. At least, that's the case for me...

Thanks,

Bill
 
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