Spalted Maple

Richard, I am a little sensitive to people throwing out scare messages. The internet is filled with them. And, since I work with antler and know many people who do, and have for many decades, I question the accuracy of that statement. I'll be checking with an expert source today and will post his response later.



OK, I got a reply from my expert. The expert happens to be my son. He is an emergency room physician who has worked in Arkansas, southern Louisiana, Alaska and now in Missouri. He has encountered many hunters, craftsmen and other eclectic types (I'm one of them) who might come into contact with any possible antler buggies. In Alaska he worked in a native Indian clinic and knew many native craftsmen there who made stuff with everything from antler to oosic.
If anyone would have contacted this 'lung filling' fungus, it would be him.
He says he has never heard of such a thing and any reaction would affect only those who might be allergic to whatever they contact. Fungus is possible but would not give that kind fast of response, especially in healthy people. He did say that people with Asthma or a similar disease could have a rapid reaction to the dust. And (not his words) presumably ANY dust. Bottom line, this is an unfounded fear. Still have concerns? Wear a mask, precaution is always prudent.
 
As long as we have people throwing out scare messages, there is An equal number of people ready to eat it up.

A classic case of "I read it on the internet so it MUST be true".

Well intentioned or not, folks have been passing on "stories" for years, the internet has just exponentially expanded the range and speed these myths spread.

Maybe this has it's origins in the fungus on chopsticks causing cancer story http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/chopsticks.asp

http://www.snopes.com/ is a good place to start when you hear these fantastic stories.

Mike
 
It must have started in California. Reason, In California, every thing is known to cause cancer. At least it seems every time I look at a label it states, this product is known by the state of California to cause cancer or birth defects.:huh: :dunno:
 
First, a little science lesson; we are exposed to fungi of many types every moment of our existence and except for a very few people who have developed antibodies to specific molds, they have no untoward effect. In fact, most of us eat mold regularly and intentionally, it's called mushrooms.

Do you eat fly agaric? Do you eat the mushrooms in your yard? Do you just pick any mushroom you see and put it in your mouth? Can you quote a paper that says it's okay? I don't see any science here.
 
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As long as we have people throwing out scare messages, there is
An equal number of people ready to eat it up.

I called the man at Woodcraft to find his sources. His name is Bob Bau (sp?).
He stands by his statement. He says that he is talking about tumours. Says he got it from an MDF. Also from his MD friend who turns wood. Also quotes the late Jon Arno. Says go ahead and call him. Personally, I think it is sinus tumours not brain tumours. Another thing,he suggested that I find a better group to chat with. I do too. I don't understand why people have to humiliate someone who is simply trying to inisiate a discussion. I think there is a little too much self pride here. Insidently, I have a SIL that is a cancer surgeon and outside of cancer he doesn't seem to know squate about medicine. Having an MD behind your name doesn't make you a big authority.
 
Hey Richard

I am sure that your intentions were good, sharing something that you thought might be helpful.

That said, I think all of us, in every aspect of our lives, are deluged by lots of "bad news" and experts off all ilk.

So don't take it personally; what I think you're reading is a bit of scepticism; heck we all know that wood dust isn't the greatest thing for us, and we all take what ever precautions we think are prudent.

Stick around a bit longer, I think you'll find this a great place.

Jay
 
First, a little science lesson; we are exposed to fungi of many types every moment of our existence and except for a very few people who have developed antibodies to specific molds, they have no untoward effect. In fact, most of us eat mold regularly and intentionally, it's called mushrooms.

Do you eat fly agaric? Do you eat the mushrooms in your yard? Do you just pick any mushroom you see and put it in your mouth? Can you quote a paper that says it's okay? I don't see any science here.

Richard,

The amanita mushroom you refer to is used in "fly agaric" and is a known poison but, a mild one and it has nothing to do with it being a fungus. It is a colinergic substance that many plants contain to prevent them from being eaten by bugs and animals. "Fly agaric" potions were made using these mushrooms and milk as crude attenpts to control flies on farms over 300 years ago. The vast majority of mushrooms that grow in the US are harmless with the toadstool being an exception. Even then, the poisonous nature of the toadstool has nothing to do with it being a fungus, but again because it contains colinergic compounds. But, how does this relate to your original statement?

The problem as I see it is that this kind of unfounded hear say discourages people from enjoying their avocation or hobby based upon spurrious information. If you trust the medical advice from your Woodcraft clerk then the next time you are ill try going to him for treatment. If you are fearfull of spalted woods then I would also suggest that you never venture outdoors since the very molds contained in spalted woods are abundant in all woded areas. So, following your line of logic anyone out hunting, fishing, hiking, etc that is in a forrest or wooded area would actually encounted these molds at a much greater concentration than those seen in spalted wood. This is because the spores (what makes the spalting visible) are essentially inert not to mention that they are largely encapsulated in the wood fibers. The presumebly most threatening mold in the US is the S. botrys mold and even that one is very questionable since few people actually develop any symptoms due to exposure to it.

While an MD, PhD, Pharm D, DO, etc doesn't mean your an expert on all types of medicine, it does mean that you have been professionally educated and likely a better source of reliable information than your "average bear" as Yogi used to say...
 
Richard, I appreciate your concern and the time you took to notify us.

I also think the discussion was fruitful, as it made people think about this, and at least in my case, it just gave me more of an incentive to use my powered respirator.

If you would like to be removed from the site, we can do that, the mods have been notified of your request and should be contacting you about it.

Cheers!
 
Ahh come on Richard, Yes you meant well for all of us, Thank you.
Yes, actually I have seen where certain saw dusts are known to cause
nose tumors and poss cancers.

You remind us to wear our PPE and that is commendible.

My mess. As long as we have people throwing out scare messages, there is
An equal number of people ready to eat it up. I am sorry if it offended you.

Was really about how far it got out of hand on my message board, It was crazy.
We had a long drawn out affair almost lasting six months on the subject.
One woman Insisted mold caused instant death, and also said there was no mold in her house
and none in her yard!

As I said gentlemen round and round she go's.......
 
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Now just hold on there

It is often the case that fable is rooted in fact, or at least has an association. There are some real bad fugal infections out there. I had a friend who contracted a histoplasmosis lung infection that hearly killed him. This is a fungal infection caused primarily by breathing dust from bat or bird droppings. In his case he was working under an industrial roof overhang/alcove frequented by pigeons. He underwent treatments that were basicly chemo, and ended up having one lobe of one lung removed. A co-worker on the same job got the same infection in an eye, but recovered fully through anti-biotics or something like that.
I know another guy who got a fugal infection in his bloodstream by scratching himself on a sharp branch on a log laying on the ground while hunting. He gets migrating recurrent infections in his body years later, and has been told by his doctor that it will likly eventually kill him.
It is prudent to take precautions when you know of a potential risk. There are lots of experts out there, but not all are humble in their opinions. A doctor in the USA may be cognacent of common problems in this country, but I would not trust him/her to give an expert opinion on diseases in the Belguim Congo. (the most medically dangerous place in the world). The point is, there is a lot of unknowns out there.
Richard, it's clear your intentions were honorable. Give this place another chance. It's a great place to learn about woodworking, and sometimes the best way to learn is amidst controveracy.
 
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