Finishing Cherry

Darren Wright

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Springfield, Missouri
So last weekend I picked up some cherry and cherry ply for my Master bath cabinets. I'm looking for suggestions for finishing it.

I'm leaning towards a natural finish and am considering using a water based lacquer and spray gun. Do I need to worry about blotching with the water based stuff? Also do I need to use a sealer first? If so, what would be recommended?

Will an HF gun work for this? Thinking about one like this... http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-66222.html
 
I never like useing water base, it always looks plastic. Cherry is to nice of would to disrespect like that :-}

If you use a good lacquer sealer spray of a couple coats of sealer and sand with 320 and then another coat of sealer and light sanding then 2-3 coats of clear lacquer. You'll have beautiful looking cherry. Natural is my favorite.
 
I use both Target EM6000 and General Finishes 'Enduro" lacquers all the time, and really like both of them. Also, I have - and use - the HF gun you listed, and it works quite well for the EM6000. The 1.4 tip is a bit big for the Enduro - a 1.2mm is better.

If you don't like the crystal clear color of the WB finishes, try adding a drop or two of Transtint honey amber to the first coat or two. After that, use it straight - untinted.

Both the EM6000 and the Enduro will give you really nice results. Another finish you might like is the M.L. Campbell pre-catalyzed waterborne lacquer. It's highly recommended for kitchen and bath cabinets.
 
funny thing is, is that i was just reading an article in the june 2011 fine woodworking, about spraying water based lacquer. for cherry, they suggest tinting the coating with an amber dye, to mimic the tone of solvent based lacquers. according to them, a better approach would be to first coat with a dewaxed shellac, you could tint the lighter shellac, or use a dewaxed version of a darker shellac. another approach from them would be to wipe a coat of oil, then use a dewaxed shellac as a barrier coat between the oil and the water based lacquer. i'll be keeping an eye on this, as it has piqued my curiosity.
 
Thanks guys, will do a little more reading an be sure to save some scraps for testing. I was looking at the Target EM1000 sealer and EM6000 semi gloss finish, wasn't sure how they'd do in a bathroom/humid setting. Great tip on the tinting Jim! :thumb:
 
jim pretty much nailed with water base but he hasnt converted me yet:) for my view it's shellac seal coat that will bring out the figure and then the mlcambell lacquer over that.
 
For me it's not about toneing the finish to make it look like something it's not. WB finished just give a lookIf plastic there is morning you can do to the finish to hide that look.it all comes down to what look you like.
 
Darren, I won't talk to the finish since enough was said above. That said, I have that gun and it isn't too bad for the money. Now it is nowhere near the quality of my HVLP Binks, but I got the HF gun first and have used it to finish several pieces.
 
I just delivered a large hardwood cherry job - see http://plesums.com/wood/bedroom/drwhite.html . I used Target EM1000 as the sanding sealer, and Target EM6000 gloss lacquer as the final finish. The Dr. White chest was rubbed (via ROS) to 4000 for a super smooth satin finish that has no plastic look. The 3 chests of drawers at the end of the web page were for the kids so I left them gloss - a slightly more durable finish than a rubbed finish.

I find a plastic look comes from too thick a finish that is built from satin or semi-gloss finishes. The "grunge" that gives the finish the un-shiny result shows through all the layers and, to me, makes the finish look like plastic. By using all gloss finish (except possibly the final coat, if you don't want to rub the gloss out), the finish (to me) does not look plastic. Of course, you can put many thick layers of gloss on, if you want to build a perceptibly thick finish.

For a bathroom, I would consider using Target EM8000 conversion varnish. A CV is more water resistant and scratch resistant than lacquer, but as a conversion varnish, there is not burn in between layers as there is with a lacquer. If you are going to rub the finish out, be sure the final coat is thick enough so you don't rub through the final layer (with lacquer there is only one layer since they all blend together).

I would not use a shellac final finish in a bathroom - shellac is subject to water damage. It is still a great base coat under many finishes.

The General Finish Enduro "lacquer" instructions suggest that you need to sand lightly between coats. If it really had burn in, the new layer would soften and go into the earlier layers, so sanding should not be necessary? Enduro may be a fine finish, but to me, it is not a lacquer.
 
I should add, if you are interested in Target Coatings, during October they are offering 30% off and Free shipping on the EM1000 sealer and the EM8000 conversion varnish I mentioned in the last post - use promo code XCT12 . I have not tried the EM7000 lacquer on sale, the EM6000 lacquer was on sale last month, but no free shipping this month!
 
Thanks Charlie, appreciate the advice.

Unfortunately I'm out of time for this project and with the weather being humid and cooler I was hesitant to try a new finish. I put on a coat of shellac tonight and will be finishing the cabinets themselves in place with a brush on lacquer (Deft). I need to be working on the doors and drawers and don't have a finish room to keep the dust off of the cabinets and need to finish hooking up the sink and getting the rest of the bath back together.

I do love the look of the cherry and my wife does as well, so definitely looking at using it for the bedroom set project in the spring. Will keep this thread bookmarked until then and will give the spray finish a go on it.
 
I do what Dan suggested. a coat of 1lb shellac sprayed, sand 400 then I have had great luck with GF Endurovar. Its a wb urethane but sprayed on looks great, it has that warm amber tone after it cures and really looks great on cherry. I agree with what the other folks are saying about wb finishes looking plastic but I have never had that look with the Endurovar or any of the GF wb urethane finishes.
WB WILL raise grain if used as the first coat, thus the shellac. Also, it was recommended to me by Jeff at Target coatings to mix my own from flake. GF had told me I didnt need to use shellac to lock down the grain for the Endurovar but when I tried it I did get some grain raising, not as bad as I had gotten from Target. Jeff stated that using the Bullseye sanding sealer even thinned had resulted in crazing of the finish, he thought it might have something to do with the ph of their mix and told me that mixing from flake got very good results. It has never failed me on any of the woods I have used.
 
On that note Rich, I picked up a Maple table yesterday . The customer had it refinished last year and burned the top. She called because of reports about us.
I 1st saw the table and said Water born finish Urethane. And orange color. She hates it so I explained what I do and I would like to take it to a MLC finish , she was to say the least DELIGHTED. It's all in the luster of the finish.
 
interesting Dave. I wont argue, having worked with both products and I do like the MLC Magnamax and Magnalac products. Love them but given I cant use that stuff in my home shop for obvious reasons (pilot lights not the least hehe) I had to adapt and overcome so to speak and have used various wb finishes. I agree completely that there are many out there that do give that plastic look. And I avoided them after trying some of them out. The wb lacquers have come a long way and imo the GF waterborne urethane products have as well. They dont have that plastic look or feel and dont have that "bartop" look after a couple of coats. I gravitated to the Endurovar because it cured to that old varnish warmth and I felt it brought out the beauty of the wood. the satin has a nice sheen and doesnt look plastic.
This kitchen was done in Endurovar
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/...ild spring 2011/Drifmeyerkitchen072311009.jpg

These were done in GF industrial pigmented urethane
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx277/rsfinishcarpentry/Armoires002.jpg

This cabinet was done with Target coatings "conversion varnish" and to me came out looking very plastic. And even though it has proven itself very durable, it didnt come close to the desired results as far as the "look" was concerned so I have never gone back to it.
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx277/rsfinishcarpentry/Drifmeyer003.jpg
 
Well, I think I have a problem. I was going with the plan of using shellac base coat, then the Target EM6000 as the top coat sprayed. I picked up the zinner amber shellac and did the base cabinets. I've since read that it is not the dewaxed version, I should have used the sanding sealer version.

So do I sand down the base cabinets and try coating them with the sanding sealer version (still a chance that the wax could pull into that coat) or is there another finish that will go over the waxed version that will work well? I've seen some of the water bleeding that Charlie mentioned earlier with shellac, so don't think using just shellac will work.
 
I've since read that it is not the dewaxed version,

I feel your pain, Darren.

Zinsser sealcoat in the can is not at all common here in Ontario, so back in 2011 I was in Ohio on a vacation, so I popped into a local Lowes/HD (forget which) and picked up two cans of Zinsser shellac. It wasn't until I got home that I discovered that I had NOT bought the dewaxed version. So I had to drive an hour to cross the border into Port Huron, MI, to exchange the two cans. My two oldest came along and we made a fun day out of it, but I try not to think about what that cost me in gas, tolls, and meals...

But on to your problem... I seem to recall reading that you could topcoat this with the proper dewaxed shellac and it would serve as a barrier between the regular shellac and the finish coat. Best double check that advice somewhere, as I don't have any personal experience on that front.

best wishes,
...art
 
i agree with art on the seal coat darren, but give jeff jewitt a call to ask his thoughts he is there i just got a email from him.. the idea of seal coat is just that sealing over old finish that your not sure of.. the amber shellac is nice color on cherry but the wax problem is a pain.. i have covered it with seal coat many years ago and it went well but i dont recall how many coats i gave it..and i used a varnish on top.
 
Normally I love Zinser Seal coat as a dewaxed barrier between a mystery finish and a new (normally water based) finish. But since shellac is solvent based, rather than reactive, it burns into previous coats of shellac - thus the seal coat may "mix" with the underlying amber shellac.

This sounds like time for an experiment. The latest formulation of EM6000 has enhanced it's binding powers, so if the underlying shellac has minimal wax, it may stick just fine. I would spray a couple coats of EM6000 on a shellac base on a test piece, and after it has cured for the full 5 days (120 hours) I would test the adhesion. My simple test would be to attack with sandpaper and see if, at any point, it starts to lift rather than powder off. Tests I have seen in magazines is to cut an "X" through the surface, press the stickiest duct tape or whatever into the surface, and see if any finish lifts when you pull the duct tape off.

If you have the EM1000 sanding sealer, I have put that on mystery finishes (even teak oil on teak wood) and the adhesion has been fine.
 
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