New 'Shop' Build

Carol Reed

In Memoriam
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Coolidge, AZ
When the guys on the West Coast Tour de Wood stopped by a couple of years ago, they saw how I had made a 16' cargo trailer into a woodworking machine tool 'room.' Well, that trailer sans the tools (which had already been moved here into a large garage), is due to arrive this weekend from Arizona. After I get the stuff out of it, I want to again make a 'shop' out of it. But a much different shop.

This one will be towed behind the motorhome when moving from one locale to another. Likely it will be parked in an RV park most of the time, maybe powered by the motorhome generator. Length of stay expected to be 12-18 months before moving on.

Wanna help?

The trailer is wired for 120V, lights and circuits on separate breakers. It has a drop down ramp in the rear. When it is on the road, it has to garage my ground transportation, i.e., car and/or motorcycle. So all items will be on wheels to bundle to make room. Weight limit will be 5,000 pounds, including vehicles. Gotta work in that envelope.

Wood working will change to small items, not large furniture. I am thinking boxes and bowls.

Lathe will be prominent. Requires band saw, drill press, sharpening gear, and DC. Would like to keep 16-32 Performax, DW733 planer, and Hitachi 10" SCMS on a Rigid stand. Table saw to be replaced with 120V site saw. Now have 220V 1023 Grizzly. The kicker is that the lathe is a Jet 1632 220V. May have to change that. DC is currently a small Ridgid shop vac with a Dust Deputy on a 15 gallon drum. I have three workbenches. Likely will opt for the one on the HF scissors table. Router Table is currently in the TS outfeed - PB 7518 in a Jessem lift. Need to find another place for it.

Also have 2 Grizzly stacked tool boxes. And 2 four drawer file cabinets are available. Would like to continue to use them as well.

Things on the storage/selling block include the Jet belt sander, the DeWalt RAS, the Grizzly drum sander, the Grizzly 1023 TS, the Craftsman 6" cast iron jointer, the HF shop crane, the HF electric hoist, and likely the Jet 1632 lathe.

The TS, lathe, belt and drum sanders need to be replaced. Thinking job site TS, midie lathe w/VS & reverse capabilities, and Ridge benchtop drum/belt sander.

I expect to build cabinets for tool storage while I still have the big shop here. Need some wood storage ideas. What about stacking tools like the DeWalt planer & Performax sander?

Your thoughts of things to consider? Remember, think building small items. Think diminished physical capabilities with regard to weights and wrestling sizes. Think availability of power sources. And whatever else. Remember also large Class A motorhome with basement storage, say one pass through storage bin allowed for WW 'stuff.' Maybe for the SCMS and TS on a stand? And some wood storage.

I will be keeping a journal. Thanks for your help. More heads are better than one.
 
Is a cargo trailer capable of hauling a car? I think they are 8" narrower than a car trailer and is the door/ramp strong enough? Also most cars will fill up 16' real fast. Not trying to spend your money Carol, but I would look at a 24' car trailer and trade your cargo trailer in on it. What a cool interesting change you are taking on, best of luck how ever it goes:)
 
This cargo trailer is up to the car hauling task. Even has the built-in tie downs in the floor. The car will become a very mini-car. Think Smart-Car. 9 feet long. Motorcycle will go away. Or double tow with car on car dolly. Have to stay under 65 feet overall and some states may get their knickers in a knot over two trailers being towed, but I expect to stay in the Southwest, so that may be an non-issue.

So many possibilities, including a new trailer. I have a 16' and a 20' (can't haul car in that one. I also have an open 8'. Gonna have to reduce the fleet. :D

Thanks, Tom. That is just the sort of input I was hoping for.

And share the popcorn!
 
What size is the motorhome? You can do like commercial contractors i work with and store some of the tools and extras under the motorhome till they get to the site. Then once at the site, car comes out and and tools go in. Keep us updated when you start to travel. I might run into you at some of the rv parks as I travel around the south for work.
 
Good thought, Al. The motorhome is scheduled to be a 38' Class A diesel pusher. Looking at it next week. But I am limited to what I can pick up or tow on wheels. And, for the record, I don't plan to 'travel' in the usual RV sense. I plan to live in an RV as I work temporary jobs in AZ & NV, for now.
 
Lose the motorcycle, and get a scooter, they are small lightweight and very good cheap transport, you can easily haul one on a carrier on the back of the RV.

The rest of the trailer thing? Boy that is a job I could sink my teeth into :D Think vertically, not just horizontally, use all the space in your rolling shop.
 
Length of stay expected to be 12-18 months before moving on.

Wanna help?
[......]
The trailer is wired for 120V, lights and circuits on separate breakers. It has a drop down ramp in the rear. When it is on the road, it has to garage my ground transportation, i.e., car and/or motorcycle. So all items will be on wheels to bundle to make room. Weight limit will be 5,000 pounds, including vehicles. Gotta work in that envelope.


Carol, it seems to me that the biggest challenge here is your requirement to fit the car into the trailer when you're on the road.

But if I am reading your comment correctly, 99.9% of the time the RV/trailer is going to be parked somewhere, and it will only be moved when you are moving locations. You don't expect to live "on the road", do you?

If that is true, then I have two suggestions...
1- get a motorcycle trailer for the car. When it is time to move, drive the car + motorcycle on trailer to new location. Then drive the motorcycle back and get the RV + trailer.

-OR-
2- just find a friend (or hire a high school kid from your current church) to drive the car for you between locations while you move the RV+trailer.


Seems like it would *vastly* simplify this whole thing if you did not try to fit the car into the trailer. It saves all the contortions you'd have to go through tying it down, moving all your woodworking stuff and tying *it* down so it doesn't smash the car, not being able to have any permanent cabinets along the wall, saves an extra few thousand pounds in towing capacity w/out the car inside there, wipes out any thought of buying a new trailer, and so on and so on.
 
This is fascinating. I'm looking forward to how it all develops. Sounds like you have a very well equipped shop. Distilling it down will be a real challenge. I'm going to propose an idea that may be totally off base for you Carol. How about shifting more of your work towards hand tools? According to C. Schwarz in The Anarchist's Tool Chest, one can fit a complete set of tools in one chest. If you haven't read the book, it may be worthwhile, [albeit opinionated and in his "know it all" style, which can sometimes be annoying.] Or perhaps pare down some of the necessary tools - bandsaw only without TS. Human powered miter box instead of chop saw. I think what would concern me the most about your plan is the double duty nature of the trailer, for both shop and car towing. If there's a good way to do it though, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
 
Carol i really like you idea, in fact you have just given me a thought for my own needs at new place.

Having just been through a learning curve with the whole towing bit and the meeting and balancing of load and eye on the gross vehicle weight and combined weight etc i would first up determine just how much actual room you have to operate in terms of weight.

Reason i say this is even with the "parred down" subset of your tools and machines, the weight of motors and metal far exceeds what we were dealing with loading our travel trailer a week or so ago.

To get the safety and cost point of carrying load for the sake of it, more safety than cost was my concern, i took my vehicle to the local gov weigh station and weighed it with me in it, then i took vehicle and trailer empty and weighed it, then i was a real pain in the rear but i had Linda and i weigh every item we put in it and make a list of their weight which we totalled up. Then just before we left i stopped by the weigh station and weighed our combined outfit.

I cannot tell you how valuable this excercise was. Its only a one time thing but it gave me the facts. The manufacturers specs were all slanted (marketing dept) and nothing beat the actual scale values.

With this in mind my first thought on considering your shop was what the weight will do as you add items especially when you consider lathes etc with not just a motor but additional cast iron. It could be worth just getting a spreadsheet together and keeping a tally and seeing where that ends up.

This has me thinking Stu's idea is a fantastic one. You being single and having managed a motorcycle could easily get around on a scooter. Clinate you talking about is conducive to "easy rider style riding" :) You could carry groceries etc on the rear rack and the space and weight consumption as well as ongoing cost of ownership as in service maint license insurance etc would be way down there by comparison to a full car and before you think smart car just check with your broker what the insurance will be on one of those. From what Linda tells me ( and she is part of that international brotherhood of insurance workers) those smart cars are way more to insure because of accident benefit risk. In addition she says insurance companies feel other drivers in all sorts of vehicles do not see you and the consequence is high accident rate and the occupant damage is more severe than normal vehicles. So speak to your broker before you get your feet wet in that dept. It could be a game changer when you see the cost.

Removing the vehicle will also get rid of weight. I think Arts point has huge merit too given your strategic purpose in RV.

Having seen what you said re reduced physical aspect i would not be too quick to get rid of your hoist. I would even think about accomodating it in the trailer to simply aid in moving things about when you do get settled. I was reminded of this aspect myself last night just moving a few things around in the new garage. I think employing an item like that even hooked up to fixed stationary points to aid in the pulling or moving aspect could be hugely beneficial for a self reliant type of person.

@ Tom I am glad you made the point you did it educated me as to these trailers.

The one thing i think will be worthwhile here is to consider this unit to be like Stus dungeon. You have a very defined space and openings. Why not get a sketchup model going where all the items could be placed inside the trailer and seen in two views. Loaded for travel and set up once parked.

Loaded for travel view will help with load balancing which will be neccessary and then parked will help with how far items will have to be moved to make use of them and what would be the ideal way.

This process will also make the location of any storage within the unit become self evident as it will have to be the flexible item with regard to fixed location in my view.

Storage within it will need to be thought of in a similar manner to that of the travel trailer builds. You wont be able to afford the carrying weight loss by using rugges 3/4 ply for cabinets. Trip to travel trailer dealer will have you quickly seeing how "percieved flimsy" they build since weight is always on the mind.

Well i am looking forward to seeing what develops here.
 
Carol,
I've been thinking about this since you first posted it... and actually have thought about it for a long time before that as well. I love my shop, but someday I plan on being a full timer, or at least a Most timer. Lots of good advice up there already, but I'm going to have to disagree with one or two parts with respect.

You've mentioned fitting a smart car in your trailer. That can Easily be accomplished in and of itself. Over on the Escapees Heavy Duty Truck (HDT) forum several folks have converted class 8 big rigs into some incredible tow rigs for 5ers. Several of Those people have set their rigs up to carry a Smart car at the same time.
Here's an above average example of how they do it:

P1010020.JPGP1010015.JPGP1010017.JPG
I realize you want a class A, that's not why I posted those... note that the smart fits cross-ways on the rig. It is only 102" long; when you get around to doing a layout, there's a solid number you will need (before you actually go out and buy a Smart). Newer smarts are slightly longer than that, but that's a good rough estimate of how much room you actually need to save in the trailer. Lori hates when I visit the escapees HDT page too often... as I keep coming back to a Class 8 with a toy hauler 5er, and a Smart as our 'dream rig'. She wants a class A with a toad.
As for tools and cabinet layout. Stu has the right idea, you've got volume in your trailer, don't give it up. 1st rule of loading a commercial trailer or a y'all haul for me is always 'heavy on the bottom' which is closely followed by 'light on top'. Think 'steps' or a ladder for the upper cabinets where the light, used less often stuff will go. I'd find a place for your DC to live up on a bracket or a shelf 'overhead' so to speak. I've already got 'stuff' high up in my shop or My own DC would be mounted up at least a couple of feet. I like that you're dedicating a storage area or two to woodworking under the rig itself. I just hope you can find a decent enough benchtop saw that will fit in there.

One thing you might want to consider is building some variation of the 'ultimate tool stand' that was published in american woodworker circa oct 2000 . It housed a miter saw, router saw, sanding station, planer stand etc... It was on wheels, so that it 'shrunk' to only 26x 80 x 3' tall iirc. yours does not have to move, though it would be neat if it did, you could roll it out of the trailer and do open air woodworking!

I'm far too fond of my tablesaw to give one up totally, but in this situation I would seriously consider doing so... I'd go with a good 14" BS, a good miter saw and a track guided circular saw for sheet goods breakdown. If you Have to keep the tablesaw, a well built sled will let you do most if not all that your miter saw does now. (just mentioning it as an option).

And stick to your guns fit in the Smart and your tools, you can do both.
 
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Wow! Some interesting ideas, though I don't plan to be a carpenter and build houses! Some things I had considered and I am making a list. I am finding already drawn tools on the Sketch-up warehouse and will be using those to 'move' stuff around. First decision will be the trailer.

I have three trailers and will need only one. One is an open 5x8 that I can tow with my Honda. I have used it to haul lumber, my motorcycle, furniture, you name it. Since only small projects are planned, and the motorcycle is going back on Craigsli, that one is slated for sale soon.

Another is the 20' enclosed cargo trailer with barn doors. I need a ramp and a frame that will haul a car. So it goes on Craigslit soon as well. Then is the 16' enclosed car hauler. I like the 20' space, but I need the ramp door. So I will sell that also and combining the sale money for all the trailer, I will buy a 20' enclosed car hauler. In the end, there should be no further bucks out of pocket. We will see if I can get that done in the next 4-6 weeks.

Then will be plumbing, lighting, and wiring the trailer. Since I have some experience there, I am good to go. Rather than pit a mouse door in the floor for hose and wire to go, I will install an RV exterior locking door that will house the connections for air and power. Behind that door will be a small cubbie to keep things clean and foil the mice when the door is open, and lock them out when the door is locked shut.

Thinking about DC and piping, if any. I do now have the small Ridgid vac high on the wall with a hose to the Dust Deputy on top the drum. The whole thing is easily removed for portability as needed. I am thinking about stacking tools as I stated earlier. We will see how that goes. I cannot lift tools as did the guy in the videos. Everything will have to be on wheels. And locking mechanisms will have to devised to keep everything in place when going down the road.

As to Ken suggesting more hand tool usage. I wish I could, but the damage in my back and neck severely curtails that. But I do use planes as appropriate and to the extent my neck can handle it.

With regard to the insurance on the SmartCar, well what are you going to do? Pay the man, right? I see the SmartCar as a 4 wheeled motorcycle with a cab and a second seat. And it will cost what it will cost. As to the scooter? I am a wuss with regard to the weather. Below 80º and I am looking for a fire, a quilt, and a hot toddy.

The truck with the car loaded crosswise is cool, but takes up road length (65') and how would I also tow the shop? Nope, I will search for the 38' Class A and the 20' car hauler trailer. I am looking at V-nose trailers. Place for compressor and DC out of the way. Some even have an additional external door in the V-nose!

Another thought that came to mind with the ramp is to rest it on stands and then to cover it with a pop-up canopy for outdoor woodworking in the shade. Truly a fair-weather woodworker!

One consideration is the height, since Stu reminded me to think vertically. The interior of these trailers is 6 1/2' feet, unless you pay many more bucks for a taller trailer. That is tall enough for me and for overhead storage. But dungeons, beneath high rise buildings or in a trailer, can become claustrophobic, so that leaves me yet with something else to ponder.

Are we having fun yet, guys? :D

Thanks, guys. Keep the information coming. I pick up new things with every suggestion.
 
Carol,
I mostly posted the big rig for the Smart. As for the 65' length, even with a 42' trailer that would be just about 65'. As for the shop, toy hauler's have these nice garage spaces in them... and they have ramps... Your plan for the class A plus a v-nose is great! V-noses can come with a door either in the v-nose or just aft of that, all up to what you want.

and I for one am really looking forward to this. :lurk:
 
Think you meant a 42' motorhome, not a 42' trailer. Yikes! The motorhome requires an office where I spend more time than anywhere else. Nature of my job. But the price breaks in used rigs are favorable at 38'. But who knows? :rolleyes:

But that was a really cool truck!
 
Ok Carol told Linda you prepared to pay the man on the smart car and she said well consider other makes of small cars then. Ie Fiat. The issue with the smart is not only accident benefit related but parts. Its a Mercedes and you know what parts cost. That issue believe it or not factors into the "insurance illuminatis :D:rofl:" calculation. So if you are set on a tiny car look to other brands as well.
I always say its not capital cost that is the issue often its ongoing cost of ownership especially at retirement age. Would be worth doing some comparisons of the like sized vehicles with your broker down your way to get a handle on the differences, our insurance industry in Canada is not true free market in my view, as its gov mandated so they know you have no choice they get you one way or the other.
 
As to tall trailers...look at the second hand market. When i have been looking at the category of trailer you are refering to i noticed there were some non standard units out there. Not saying one in your backyard but check it out you never know. Could be worthwhile travelling like i did to pick up my travel trailer if the deal fits.
 
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